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I don't think Shimano has any substantial changes coming to Ultegra or Ultegra SL. I think Shimano's plan is to make 105 shiny black to cheapen the perception of Rival. Hopefully most people will know better...
 

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Perceptive

MarvinK said:
... I think Shimano's plan is to make 105 shiny black to cheapen the perception of Rival. Hopefully most people will know better...
Very perceptive insight MK. Like the way you roll. You into marketing?
 

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MarvinK said:
I don't think Shimano has any substantial changes coming to Ultegra or Ultegra SL. I think Shimano's plan is to make 105 shiny black to cheapen the perception of Rival. Hopefully most people will know better...
Shimano 105 has bee offered in black in the past. It was available in silver at the same time and it seemed that consumers prefered silver so they dropped black. Unfoortunately SRAM, if it is priced at the same level at 105 it will be percieved to be the same quality as 105 by customers. In reality, it's a fair comparison. They are pretty close.
 

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davidka said:
Shimano 105 has bee offered in black in the past. It was available in silver at the same time and it seemed that consumers prefered silver so they dropped black. Unfoortunately SRAM, if it is priced at the same level at 105 it will be percieved to be the same quality as 105 by customers. In reality, it's a fair comparison. They are pretty close.
I guess it depends on what you consider close...

+ Rumored to rival 08 Dura Ace weight
+ Includes most of the 'new' features coming in 09 Dura Ace
+ Similar amounts of carbon to 09 Dura Ace
+ Modern cassette sizes like 09 Dura Ace
+ Rebuildable levers like... umm.. Campy?

- Black color scheme like 105

...I guess in my book, Rival does seem pretty close--to Dura Ace. You can wait for 2011 and get some of SRAMs innovations in Shimano 105. Otherwise it looks like Rival competes with the only Shimano group to see substantial improvements in over half a decade--2009 Dura Ace... and most of those changes are clearly SRAM-inspired.

At least 105 has one thing going for it--arguably better brakes.
 

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The nice thing about SRAM '09 is that except for some of the materials used the mechanicals are identical across the ranges. There are diference between 105 to Ultegra to Dura Ace. So with SRAM you primarily pay a weight penalty but not in performance.
 

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NeoRetroGrouch
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ewitz said:
The nice thing about SRAM '09 is that except for some of the materials used the mechanicals are identical across the ranges. There are diference between 105 to Ultegra to Dura Ace. So with SRAM you primarily pay a weight penalty but not in performance.
So Rival has reach-adjustable levers? - TF
 

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Anyone up on the 11 speed thing? I was wondering if it was just gonna be a Red/Dura Ace/Record thing first, or if some of the lower tier groups would be picking it up in 09 as well. I plan on buying a new tt bike next year, and I wonder how popular 11 speed will be.
 

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11 speed is supposedly limited to Campy's newly re-introduced ultra-premium Super Record line (Record will still exist). It certainly won't be popular in 2009--but I'm sure in 2012 or so, everyone will be doing it... or Campy will be out of business (with litigation from broken chains putting them out). :p
 

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Honestly I see the new Rival group canibalizing sales of Force especially and even Red to an extent. Dont get me wrong, Im really excited about seemingly all the technology trickling down. I just don't see the selling proposition of Force or Red given the already excellent weight of the Rival group. I think this sets SRAM up to dominate the OEM market.
 

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Rival is going to be huge in the OEM market.
 

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the rival and force new shifters are available now, SRAM released them to the distributors around the sea otter time frame. With shipping times, I would think they will be really available in just a few weeks. Also, while comparing them to Shimano, Rival really does compare evenly with Ultegra and Force with DA. Red is it's own thing, more to feed racers and the money is no object crowd. I tested the Rival at the SRAM distributor meeting at sea otter and was really impressed with it.
 

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I think they should make Force glossy white... sort of like Ritchey's 'wet white' finish. FSA has a glossy white finish on some of their bars & stems, too. If they could make the finish durable, it would look pretty sweet.

Remember Sante? :D
 

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Just saw the final stage of the Tour de Nez in Tahoe/Reno. My first time to a Domestic Pro race. I was surprised to see about half of the riders on the Kelly Benefits/ Medifast Team were using Rival brifters and the other half Red. They had a good Tour and took second in GC. Apparently, Rival components are good enough to race on. I wish I had taken a closer look but I would not be surprised if they use Red cassettes and mixed gruppos. You can go to VeloNews.com and check the photo gallery to see for yourself.

http://www.velonews.com/photo/78747
 
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