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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The dwindling few of us who thought eight speeds were plenty got a small boost in the RBR newsletter today. See it below or at http://www.roadbikerider.com/237n.htm Note the reference to the chains...

. Uncle Al: Geared to the 9s o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o I'm a compatibility freak. I spend way too much of my time trying to figure out what works with what. My latest quest has been to determine how much (or if any) of Shimano's new 10-speed stuff can interface with its great 9s stuff. What a mess.
Shimano created some of the greatest drivetrain compatibility of all time with its 9s system. You can mix and match nearly all 9s road or ATB parts to get whatever gearing you want. Like a road triple crank with 30/39/53 rings mated to an 11-34 cassette and XT rear derailleur with so you could climb Everest and speed down the Chinese side, bullets a-flyin'.
But 10s has virtually shut the door on custom gearing while providing very limited choices to boot.
Now, what about the new Shimano Compact crank (FC-R700)? Compacts do give lower gearing for fit cyclists with legs of steel. But that 34x27-tooth bottom gear isn't low enough for weenie-legged recreational riders (like myself) with a Walter Mitty Complex. There's a reason I ride in the valley and not out of it.
Will Shimano's compact crank work with 9s stuff? The bad news is it's a dedicated 10s crank and the only way you're gonna use it on your 9s is to replace the chain and front derailleur with 10s.
The derailleur is fine but I think Shimano's 10s chains would be better used for necklaces. I destroyed two of the $50 ones installing them with the correct chain tool. It wasn't the first time I'd installed chains during 40 years of wrenching, it just felt like it. Broken or twisted 10s chains are not uncommon from poor shifts or simply generating too many watts.
A couple other issues to think about when considering 10s stuff:
---The 10s STI brake/shift levers are 2-cm longer on the hoods than the 9s. If you ride on the hoods a lot be sure to factor that in to your bike fit. Credit for this insight goes to fit guru Richard Schwinn of Waterford Precision Cycles. You'll have to shorten your stem if you're happy with your current position, or get a frame with a shorter top tube. Whatever it takes; 2 cm is dramatic.
---Don't buy a Shimano 10s-dedicated wheel if you run a 9s system. The hub won't accept a 9s cassette. Fortunately, most other aftermarket wheels are 8-9-10s compatible.
Bottom line: Don't assume that going to 10s is the next nirvana. Ask yourself if you really need it. Trying to mix and match 10s with 9s could drive you to drink. If you go there, be absolutely sure you're getting compatibility advice from someone who really knows their stuff.
This sounds too much like the GM business model of planned obsolescence. What were they thinking?
 

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A lot of MTBers still like 8 speed because the wider spacing reduces clogged cassettes and bad shifting.

I can't believe all that price difference for ONE extra tooth in a shift. No increase in gear ratios or sturdier equipment, just one more shift that fills in between two other cogs by adding ONE stinking tooth. PITIFUL.
 

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I stayed with 8 speed on the MTB because I was breaking 9 speed chains and bending cassettes with frightening regularity. It's getting much harder to find replacement cassettes now, though.

On the roadie, I run 10 speed, and haven't had a problem yet.
 

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The best cycing improvement in the past few years is the White Industries ENO single speed freewheel. Making the relatively bombproof single speed set up even more reliable. I'm out for the tech race, and racing, and light stuff. I ride for the self punishment of it all, on a single speed.
 

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Orb said:
I stayed with 8 speed on the MTB because I was breaking 9 speed chains and bending cassettes with frightening regularity.
I love my 8 speed XTR on the MTB. The 9 speed stuff, IME, was much more prone to misshifts and being affected by debris.

Still have 9 speed on the roadie. The only thing that makes me consider going 10 speed is that I enjoy my 12-25 cassette, but miss the 16t cog on the 12-23. 10 speed would give that back.
 

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Beetpull DeLite
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Orb said:
I stayed with 8 speed on the MTB because I was breaking 9 speed chains and bending cassettes with frightening regularity. It's getting much harder to find replacement cassettes now, though.
Not if you know where to look...I just found three SRAMs and 13 Shimanos total in a couple of seconds. They'll always keep a few around I'd guess.

This is just speculation, but what about taking 9-speed cassettes apart, removing one cog, and re-spacing them with 8-speed spacers? You could have thin ones to keep the first two or three cogs the correct distance apart.
 

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GirchyGirchy said:
Not if you know where to look...I just found three SRAMs and 13 Shimanos total in a couple of seconds. They'll always keep a few around I'd guess.
Oh, they're available. I use XTR 12-32 alloys exclusively, since they're unquestionably the strongest cassettes out there. SRAM cassettes? Forget it. I saw one of those get bent after one ride.

I stocked up on parts a couple years ago. Yeah, you can find them now, but they're much more expensive as NOS stock is depleted.
 

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NeoRetroGrouch
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Cory said:
The dwindling few of us who thought eight speeds were plenty got a small boost in the RBR newsletter today. See it below or at http://www.roadbikerider.com/237n.htm Note the reference to the chains...

. Uncle Al: Geared to the 9s o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o I'm a compatibility freak. I spend way too much of my time trying to figure out what works with what. My latest quest has been to determine how much (or if any) of Shimano's new 10-speed stuff can interface with its great 9s stuff. What a mess.
Shimano created some of the greatest drivetrain compatibility of all time with its 9s system. You can mix and match nearly all 9s road or ATB parts to get whatever gearing you want. Like a road triple crank with 30/39/53 rings mated to an 11-34 cassette and XT rear derailleur with so you could climb Everest and speed down the Chinese side, bullets a-flyin'.
But 10s has virtually shut the door on custom gearing while providing very limited choices to boot.
Now, what about the new Shimano Compact crank (FC-R700)? Compacts do give lower gearing for fit cyclists with legs of steel. But that 34x27-tooth bottom gear isn't low enough for weenie-legged recreational riders (like myself) with a Walter Mitty Complex. There's a reason I ride in the valley and not out of it.
Will Shimano's compact crank work with 9s stuff? The bad news is it's a dedicated 10s crank and the only way you're gonna use it on your 9s is to replace the chain and front derailleur with 10s.
The derailleur is fine but I think Shimano's 10s chains would be better used for necklaces. I destroyed two of the $50 ones installing them with the correct chain tool. It wasn't the first time I'd installed chains during 40 years of wrenching, it just felt like it. Broken or twisted 10s chains are not uncommon from poor shifts or simply generating too many watts.
A couple other issues to think about when considering 10s stuff:
---The 10s STI brake/shift levers are 2-cm longer on the hoods than the 9s. If you ride on the hoods a lot be sure to factor that in to your bike fit. Credit for this insight goes to fit guru Richard Schwinn of Waterford Precision Cycles. You'll have to shorten your stem if you're happy with your current position, or get a frame with a shorter top tube. Whatever it takes; 2 cm is dramatic.
---Don't buy a Shimano 10s-dedicated wheel if you run a 9s system. The hub won't accept a 9s cassette. Fortunately, most other aftermarket wheels are 8-9-10s compatible.
Bottom line: Don't assume that going to 10s is the next nirvana. Ask yourself if you really need it. Trying to mix and match 10s with 9s could drive you to drink. If you go there, be absolutely sure you're getting compatibility advice from someone who really knows their stuff.
This sounds too much like the GM business model of planned obsolescence. What were they thinking?
Sounds like you/he have way over-complicated it. They went from 9-speed to 10-speed and all you need is the shifters, cassette and chain. You think 7 to 8 was better? - TF
 

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Devoid of all flim-flam
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I still mourn the day they went from five speeds to six.
 

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Mapei Roida said:
I still mourn the day they went from five speeds to six.
the true day of sorrow was when "gears" were introduced.
Desgrange would call 8 speed users soft as melted butter and frown upon their use of a derailer.
:rolleyes:
 

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what's up with roadbikerrider.com $25 annual membership for premium edition? Never been to that site before but that seems ridiculous. Anyone belong? I can't imagine its better than here which is free.

Also I just changed my last wheel from 6 to 7 speeds, now you're saying 8!!!! is available? I give up...
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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Cory said:
---The 10s STI brake/shift levers are 2-cm longer on the hoods than the 9s. If you ride on the hoods a lot be sure to factor that in to your bike fit. Credit for this insight goes to fit guru Richard Schwinn of Waterford Precision Cycles. You'll have to shorten your stem if you're happy with your current position, or get a frame with a shorter top tube. Whatever it takes; 2 cm is dramatic.
It seems to me that this is overstaing it.

First of all, 2 cm is almost an inch, I'm skeptical about this. Secondly, I've been doing some thinking about changing my 9 sp stuff to 10 speed and have been asking around. I have yet to find one person who made the switch that has had to change any part of their stem or HB's in order to get the same fit.

Something is not right with your statement.

Len
 

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bkranich said:
I love my 8 speed XTR on the MTB. The 9 speed stuff, IME, was much more prone to misshifts and being affected by debris.

Still have 9 speed on the roadie. The only thing that makes me consider going 10 speed is that I enjoy my 12-25 cassette, but miss the 16t cog on the 12-23. 10 speed would give that back.

The 12-23 cassette does have a 16t cog.

12-23
12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23
 

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ya, I don't think your measurements are right..

I have a 9spd set up and recently purchased a 10spd compact system on a new bike. the 10spd shifters are slightly larger/longer, but there's no way I'm stretched another inch over the bars...if the base of your palm is on the hood, the wrists are still rested on the bars...no harm, no foul.
 

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...and I thought atpjunkie and I were the resident Luddites on the forums!

I bought all the 8-sp stuff I could afford when I realized Shimano was really, truly pulling the plug on it. Cassettes, derailleurs (gawd, I love those XTs), Rapidfire, STI, cranks...I still keep my eyes peeled for bikes with decent 8-sp drivetrains, just so I can strip 'em for parts.

I can tolerate 9-sp when I have to, but that's as far as I'm going.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I didn't write it--it was just a cut & paste

The argument comes from the website I posted...I just passed it along for general information. Personally, though, I'm sticking with eight because I've never encountered a situation where it wasn't enough.

Len J said:
It seems to me that this is overstaing it.

First of all, 2 cm is almost an inch, I'm skeptical about this. Secondly, I've been doing some thinking about changing my 9 sp stuff to 10 speed and have been asking around. I have yet to find one person who made the switch that has had to change any part of their stem or HB's in order to get the same fit.

Something is not right with your statement.

Len
 

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Windrider (Stubborn)
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It just doesn't pass.....

Cory said:
The argument comes from the website I posted...I just passed it along for general information. Personally, though, I'm sticking with eight because I've never encountered a situation where it wasn't enough.
the smell test.

You retro Gauche's will reach for anything....LOL

Len
 

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I think the # of gears we're using now is ridiculous. 5 - 8 cogs are plenty. In fact, IMO / IME 5-6 are plenty. The more gears, the more weight. Wheel dishing has taken on a new meaning. Special chains are needed, as well as der., shifters, etc. IMO, it's just nutz! What's going to be next? 12, 14, 20 spd cassettes? Quads on the front? I have an 8 spd cassette on my #1 bike & my commuter has a 6 spd. I can honestly say, I never use them all. On either bike. Why would I need more?
 

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Len J said:
the smell test.

You retro Gauche's will reach for anything....LOL

Len

Len can I buy your nine speed stuff when you upgrade?

I never thought I would ever be starting to act like the retro grouches on this board but I think I ARE one , or getting real close. LOL
 
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