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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I could use some help. I have a 2009 SR 11 setup on my 2009 Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL2, except that I have been using my 25,000+ mile10s Record crankset and FD. I bit the bullet and purchased a new 11s SR crankset and FD (from Ribble-great prices). I can't install the 11s FD properly so that the cage is parallel to the chainring.

When I torque down the bolt, the whole FR rotates inward, so that the tail is closer to the centerline of the bike. The bike has not been crashed. I re-installed my 10s FD with the cage parallel and it shifts great with the 11s crankset.

I installed the SR 11 FD on another bike that has all 11s except for the old Record 10s crank. No problem getting the cage parallel and it shifts fantastic with the 10s rings.

It appears that the design of the 11s FD will not mate properly with the back of my Tarmac’s brazeon tab. I would obviously like to use my 11s FD with the Tarmac but I have given up.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks!
 

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odd...

You must be overlooking something. Braze-on mounts are nothing but a thin metal plate with a curved shaped to mate with the FD. Most are also not very strong and are easily bent to alter the range of angle that they can handle. I've done it with nothing but the hex wrench inserted into the clamp bolt. If the braze-on mount is not permanently riveted to the frame, it could be removed and tweaked while it's held in a vise or with vise-grip pliers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, it is very odd. Never had this happen before. If the plate were bent, it would seem that I would have the same difficulty mounting the 10s FD, but I don't. It works perfectly.

The Tarmac has a pretty beefy braze-on mount, and it is riveted to the frame with four rivets. I am afraid to try and bend it for fear of damaging the frame.

Originally my mechanic set up this FD. I have total confidence in him, but he didn't mention not being able to get the cage parallel. I have had chain rubbing/trimming issues, and I guess I figured that was just the nature of the 11s FD beast with the narrower cage.

Then I discovered the rotated cage. With the cage parallel and the bolt not torqued to 7nm, the trimming issues go away and it shifts great. Torque it down to anything past 4-5nm and the FD twists as the bolt is being tightened.

Think I'll email Specialized before I take it back to my mechanic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I did try using a different bolt. I forgot to mention that if I position the FD at the top end of the braze-on adjustment range, the FD stays put and does not rotate when I torque the bolt down. Unfortunately, that position puts it a mile above my 50t chainring!
 

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Could you or your mechanic have dropped the cupped washer and therefore are tightening the bolt head against the edges of the slot, allowing just one angle? I think I have knowingly done this before (lost the washer) but was able to compensate because it was a clamp-on braze-on clamp, if you know what I mean. I just rotated that clamp. Of course you do not have a clamp but might check to ensure your washer is not missing and that it is cupped.
 

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tommyturbo said:
I did try using a different bolt. I forgot to mention that if I position the FD at the top end of the braze-on adjustment range, the FD stays put and does not rotate when I torque the bolt down. Unfortunately, that position puts it a mile above my 50t chainring!
Aha. That then begs the question, where does your 10sp derailleur which does not rotate fit on the braze-on tab when properly positioned relative to where the 11sp goes? Higher, perhaps? The fact that your old FD does not rotate on either bike, and the new FD is ok on the old bike, is clearly significant. My reason for suggesting a different bolt was that the braze-on tabs on the two bikes are likely of slightly different thicknesses, and if there were some irregularity in the contour or alignment of the new bolt head it might manifest as torque on one tab but not the other. However, with the positional info, if the old FD that works sits higher on the tab than the new FD, that would suggest the problem is with the braze-on mount.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ah, the mystery continues. Yes, I am using the radius washer (I've tried several different ones), and the two FD's were mounted in roughly the same position. Regarding the bolt, I initially thought that the bolt might be too long, and hitting the inner limit screw. I figured if it was hitting the screw, then the FD might rotate when the screw could go no further. This was not the answer. I was using the bolt that came with the SR 11s FD (and tried the 10s bolt as well), and I am now using that bolt with the 11s FD on my other bike.

I checked the 2011 Campy FD instructions manual online. Looks like Campy has decided to give us more info. It's interesting that they are now recommending the FD be mounted 1.5-3mm above the big ring. There are also some new instructions for the 2011 shifters, and I find some of the lingo confusing.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm going to take another look at things tomorrow. If the only solution for using the 11s FD is to bend the tab, I think I'll just use the 10s.
 

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Another thought - Take a look at the angle or crevice where the front surface of the curved tab part of the braze-on (riveted on) mount meets the part of the mount that mates to the seat tube. The edge of the radius washer closest to the seat tube will generally be pretty closely fit into that space. If there happens to be a bit of something right where that innermost part of the washer has to fit in the angle/groove/crevice it could put a torque on the washer with the final Nm of tightening that would force the front of the FD cage outward. It wouldn't make any difference which washer or bolt you are using, and even if the position of the 10 speed FD that works is only a couple millimeters different than the 11 speed that twists that could make the difference. Look in there with a bright light and some magnification and see if there's some such little chunk of stuff...????
v.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Another great idea. I originally was using a K-Edge Chain Checker with the 11s FD. At first I thought that the K-Edge was binding on the braze-on tab. It was, so I installed the 5mm spacer and the K-Edge was no longer touching the tab, but the FD still was rotating when the bolt was tightened. I then removed the K-Edge and carefully inspected the radius washer for clearance-it was not touching the plate, and the FD still rotated.

So I am totally mystified.

Your comment just made me think of something. I had been using the K-Edge without the spacer. Could using it with it touching the tab have screwed up the 11s FD somehow?

This would seem believable, except for two facts: 1) The 11s FD is installed on my steel bike and is aligned perfectly parallel to the big ring 2) My old 10s FD is working great on the Tarmac, as it did for many miles with both 10s and 11s setups before I got the 11s FD

Once again, thanks for the brainstorming.
 

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You've most likely tried this, but since it hasn't been mentioned I've got to ask-- have you tried a little "Kentucky windage"? That is, instead of tightening the bolt the last bit starting with the cage properly aligned, what happens if you mis-align it with the tail of the cage outward by the amount it usually twists, and then tighten it down?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You know, I never really jacked it with the tail way out to see what would happen. I guess I didn't consider it; shouldn't have to! The FD did wind up in the exact same orientation as I tried it over and over.

I've come to realize that I prefer my old 10s CT FD over the 11s. I'll use the 11s on the other bike where it works, but I still like the 10s better (it came off of that bike).

Thanks everybody, for all of the great ideas. This is a great forum. I read some of the many threads, and it's nice to see how constructive the comments are, without the chippy attitude you sometimes find with other groups.

I'm going to start a new thread to find out what others think about the 11s FD compared to the old 10s.
 
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