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russw19 said:
The Alpe had an 853 main frame, 525 head tube and seat and chain stays...

But the Zurich and MJ are not actually "full" 853 frames... they use Reynolds 725 seat and chain stays. They shape the chain and seat stays to make the frames ride better, and it's really hard to manipulate 853. So they use 725 for the stays instead.

Russ
There's a noticable difference in weight and stiffness between the 853 select and 853 pro frames. My zurich is alot lighter and stiffer than my Buenos Aires. The main triangle is butted and shaped, purportedly it increases stiffness at the bottom bracket, and I'd have to agree.
 
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