[russw19]

If I recall correctly, that statement is a little incorrect: the Alpe d'Huez had an 853 front
triangle and 521 rear triangle. The Zurich is full-853 steel.

The Alpe had an 853 main frame, 525 head tube and seat and chain stays...

But the Zurich and MJ are not actually "full" 853 frames... they use Reynolds 725 seat and chain stays. They shape the chain and seat stays to make the frames ride better, and it's really hard to manipulate 853. So they use 725 for the stays instead.

Russ

 

[russw19]

There's a noticable difference in weight and stiffness between the 853 select and 853 pro frames. My zurich is alot lighter and stiffer than my Buenos Aires. The main triangle is butted and shaped, purportedly it increases stiffness at the bottom bracket, and I'd have to agree.

A lot of that you hit right on the head.... the 853 pro frames are butted. The select frames are not. My point was that the 853 Pro frames are not full 853 frames though. They would be more harsh if they were. The use of 725 for the rear end makes the ride much more compliant (along with Lemond's relaxed geometry) over full 853 frames like a Waterford or IRD frame (the only other 853 frames I have riden) That is also why Lemond has to label their frames as Pro or Select and can't use the normal Reynolds 853 sticker.

Nice riding bikes. I used to have an MJ and I may get one of the Spine bikes this year.

Russ