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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone else heard the rumor that Schwinn is brining back the Paramount? I've heard that Waterford is building Paramounts again, this time out of Reynolds 953 Stainless Steel tubing. What a bike in the day, in the late 1980's I would have loved to have one.
Also I heard Schwinn is doing a couple of carbon Paramounts as well. Anyone have proof of these? I'm really intriuged.
 

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Schwinn is just a name that is owned by a company that wants to make money. The name means nothing anymore. If they wanted, they could slap the name Paramount on a $149 bike from China.
Waterford was formed by the people who were in charge of building Schwinn Paramounts, back in 1993 (?), when Schwinn was sold. They will never be able to use the name Paramount, because they don't own the rights to that name. They do make a frame from 953, but that is just a passing fad, without much redeeming value.
There are some custom builders that paint a bike fancier than Waterford, but nobody builds a steel frame "better" than Waterford.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not to argue with you Mr. Grumpy but name me one bike company that isn't in it for the money? Also, most bikes are made in China nowdays anyway right? Isn't Specialized owned by the Chinese because they couldn't keep their head above water? Where are most Treks made? outside of Wisconsin? I wouldn't blame the new owners of Schwinn for the past owners going bankrupt. And why couldn't Waterford and Schwinn bring back the Paramount? I've talked with a lot of Waterford and Paramount owners not one has a bad thing to say about the bike.
From what I've read, 953 is some amazing stuff, light and strong.
Just my 2cents, now fireback with your response :thumbsup:
 

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You have to ask...."What was a Paramount"......Well, it was a finely made bike made from 531. Real Paramounts haven't been made in over 20 years (I do not count the Japanese made Paramounts or the Ti Serota made Paramounts from a few years ago)
531 is so outdated (for all but the super skinny racer types), that it would be silly to make it from 531. The only people who could design a "real" Paramount, all work at Waterford. Who would make it? The Schwinn Chicago plant has been closed for years. If Schwinn does bring back the Paramount name, it will just be some Chinese made Aluminum or Carbon bike, like you buy at Walmart.

Yes, Waterford does make the "Best" steel bike in the USA. There are other builders that make an equally fine bike, and you can't beat Joe Bell for painting, but if you want something rare and "race ready", look at Waterford.
PS. In case you didn't know, the person who runs Waterford is Richard Schwinn.
 

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Yes.
I can just picture a "Paramount" at Walmart.
 

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MR_GRUMPY said:
You have to ask...."What was a Paramount"......Well, it was a finely made bike made from 531. Real Paramounts haven't been made in over 20 years (I do not count the Japanese made Paramounts or the Ti Serota made Paramounts from a few years ago)
531 is so outdated (for all but the super skinny racer types), that it would be silly to make it from 531. The only people who could design a "real" Paramount, all work at Waterford. Who would make it? The Schwinn Chicago plant has been closed for years. If Schwinn does bring back the Paramount name, it will just be some Chinese made Aluminum or Carbon bike, like you buy at Walmart.

Yes, Waterford does make the "Best" steel bike in the USA. There are other builders that make an equally fine bike, and you can't beat Joe Bell for painting, but if you want something rare and "race ready", look at Waterford.
PS. In case you didn't know, the person who runs Waterford is Richard Schwinn.
Ahh . In the USA . Closer but still bold . I won'y name the other contenders . You already know there names .....
 

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Waterford Precision Cycles has no relationship with the current owners of the Schwinn brand (Pacific Cycle and its parent, Dorel Industries, Inc., of Montreal). The last Paramount bicycles were built in 1998-2001 before Schwinn/GT Corporation was sold to Pacific Cycle in the Denver bankruptcy court on September 13, 2001, and there were two models with identical geometries built during that period. The steel frame Paramounts were lugged Reynolds 853, and were made by Match Bicycle Company in Seattle (Tim Isaac), while the titanium version was built by Ben Serotta. Match and Serotta produced these Paramounts under a contractural arrangement with Schwinn/GT Corporation, and IMHO both the Match built steel and Serotta built Ti Paramounts were worthy of the Paramount name in every respect.

In mid-2006, after spending months experimenting with the material, Waterford began producing road bikes using the Reynolds 953 tube set. I ordered a custom 953 from Waterford in November, 2006, and took delivery in May, 2007. The size and geometry of the Waterford is virtually identical to the 1972 P15-9 touring Paramount, but the Waterford weighs six pounds less than the '72 Paramount, which is built using Reynolds 531 tubes.

The Waterford isn't a Paramount, of course, but it's as close as I could get in 2006.







 

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FatTireFred said:
looks like Pacentis... without any/much modification
They're Richard Sachs stainless Newvex lugs. I know Kirk and Richard have worked together on projects, but I was under the impression the Newvex lug series were Richard's. Kirk's "Artisan" lugs look somewhat similar.

The reason I chose the Newvex lugs is to get as close as possible to the Nervex Professional lugs used on the seventies Paramounts.

EDIT - While it doesn't say Kirk designed the Newvex lugs specifically, the Pacenti website has a link to a review of a Pacenti road bike containing this gem: "This ideology follows suit with one of his childhood influences, Connecticut's Richard Sachs. Sachs has been building frames since 1972, and turned to Pacenti to have some of his Sachs-branded lugs and fork crowns designed."
 

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Scooper said:
EDIT - While it doesn't say Kirk designed the Newvex lugs specifically, the Pacenti website has a link to a review of a Pacenti road bike containing this gem: "This ideology follows suit with one of his childhood influences, Connecticut's Richard Sachs. Sachs has been building frames since 1972, and turned to Pacenti to have some of his Sachs-branded lugs and fork crowns designed."
Richard Sachs saw this thread and sent me a PM saying that Kirk Pacenti had nothing to do with the design of the Newvex Series lugs or any of his lugs, so I apologize for unintentionally perpetuating something that isn't true.
 

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scottk said:
Scooper:
First-absolutely beautiful bikes!
Second-you wrote that the Waterford has "virtually identical" geometry. What was changed, why, and is it a positive change?
Just curious.
Thanks! :D

There are some very minor changes:

1. The fork rake on the Waterford is 40mm compared to 50.8mm (2 inches) on the P15-9. With the same head tube angle, the shorter rake results in slightly more trail making the steering a little more stable on the Waterford.

2. The Waterford has slightly shorter chainstays resulting in a wheelbase one centimeter shorter than on the P15-9. This results in a little less longitudinal stability, but should make the Waterford a little more agile.

To tell you the truth, in practice I don't notice any significant difference in either the steering stability or longitudinal stability between the two bikes.

3. The head tube on the Waterford is slightly longer (187mm compared to 170mm on the P15-9) because the top extension is longer. That seems to be the way they're building them these days, and it's OK with me because at 66 I'm not quite as flexible as I used to be, and that top extension gets the handlebars up a little bit. I still spend a lot of time in the drops, and on the Waterford I don't get either back pain or neck pain on long rides.

 
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