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thoughts..

peabody said:
please discuss.
Maybe you should try both and make your own decision. I choose Campy because I can use the extra cog and I like the way the brake/shifters work. The brake/shifters are cheaper and repairable.

I've never tried SRAM, but I've ridden behind a couple of people with it and couldn't believe how noisy the shifting was. First the shifter makes a loud clack, then the chain makes a clunck onto the next cog. Clack, clunk, clack clunk.
 

· So. Calif.
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C-40 said:
....I've never tried SRAM, but I've ridden behind a couple of people with it and couldn't believe how noisy the shifting was. First the shifter makes a loud clack, then the chain makes a clunck onto the next cog. Clack, clunk, clack clunk.
There's also a number of threads about SRAM "noisy" drivetrains ... not the shifting, but general higher level of noise, while just riding along.
 

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The only thing bothering me is the micro ajustment don't works well on the certain gear ratio, stay with Campy and most grouppo are serviceable.
 

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I love the idea of being able to make an upshift with a short flick of the lever, but I've been riding Ergopower since it came out, what, back around 1990? I thought about putting SRAM on my new ride but then I'd be switching between that and Ergo on the other 2 and I'd never get used to it. Plus, I run a 12-25 so I have the ever important 16 and 18 cogs. The 18 is the sh*t....when I put on my 12-27 mountain cassette it's sorely missed. My only complaint about 11 spd is that the downshift action is not nearly as tactile as on my 2008 Chorus 10 spd-the click is so much more positive. I occasionally get incomplete downshifts on the 11 because I just don't quite push the lever far enough since the click is not so distinct.
 

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Let me sum it up like this, I'm still using 10 speed Record and I swapped bikes for a few minutes with a riding friend of mine last weekend. This guy is a real dumba_s and his bike has SRAM Rival on it. After about five minutes he made the comment that he couldn't belive how much better Campy Record shifted over his Rival and how quiet the Campy drivetrain was...

I believe that should make your decision.
 

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4 campy bikes (8/9/10s record), 1 sram (red) here. i like the ergonomincs of the sram levers, but i just can't get the hang of doubletap (i have ~3k miles on the sram bike). drivetrain noise is higher w/sram, but not objectionable, atmo (this is with a red cassette even). sram one-at-a-time upshifts suck...there is no equivalent to the oft used campy two-thumb mash. campy takes the durability and serviceability nods as well...

campy guy, flirted with sram, back to what i love from here on out.
 

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I test rode a 2010 Madone 6 with SRAM Force. I have a 1997 Litespeed that started with Campy Chorus 9 speed and I moved it to Chorus 10 speed about 5 years ago. I really wanted to go with SRAM Force because the parts would be cheaper and easier to find. I didn't find the shifting all that smooth from the small to the big chain ring though. I was also worried about having SRAM on one bike and Campy on the other and getting shifts confused in a fast paceline.

Ultimatly, I opted to have my LBS order a Madone with Shimano and they ordered Campy Chorus 11 speed and installed it instead. I have had lots of shifting issues with it. I think the cable routing/tension is part of it. It is much better after spending additional time getting "tuned" but it isn't shifting as well as my Chorus 10 speed. The main problem is smaller cog to a larger cog in the back (especially in the middle of the cassette). I also think there is some chain rub on the first three cogs while in the large chain ring. I can't seem to trim it out either. I would expect the largest cog to have some rub but not the next two. I like the new Campy hoods/levers a lot but I would really like to get the shifting issues resolved.
 

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cycle7man said:
The main problem is smaller cog to a larger cog in the back (especially in the middle of the cassette).
How so? I do find that the Campy tends to overshift when shifting down (jumps two cogs briefly), but it's not really objectionable while riding. My only other complaint is that I have difficulty upshifting just one cog from the drops. The single or multi upshift option from the hoods is great, though.

Coming from a 7800 group, I really didn't like the Campy 10 ergo levers. I switched to Chorus 11 levers ($240 from Wiggle), which have a better shape, but I still miss the over-the-knob position from 7800.

I've only done parking lot rides of Force, but it's certainly a viable option. The double-tap works fine, except that you can only get single upshifts (like Shimano).
 

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Ultimatly, I opted to have my LBS order a Madone with Shimano and they ordered Campy Chorus 11 speed and installed it instead. I have had lots of shifting issues with it. I think the cable routing/tension is part of it. It is much better after spending additional time getting "tuned" but it isn't shifting as well as my Chorus 10 speed. The main problem is smaller cog to a larger cog in the back (especially in the middle of the cassette). I also think there is some chain rub on the first three cogs while in the large chain ring. I can't seem to trim it out either. I would expect the largest cog to have some rub but not the next two. I like the new Campy hoods/levers a lot but I would really like to get the shifting issues resolved.[/QUOTE]

That sounds strange I never had any problem with either 10/11 grouppo. Thew new SR11 shifting is effortless compare with previous Record 10.
 

· lodestar
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fallzboater said:
How so? I do find that the Campy tends to overshift when shifting down (jumps two cogs briefly), but it's not really objectionable while riding.[snip]
I've been having this problem lately with Chorus 10, (mine's overshifting to smaller cogs when cable tension is correct for "downshifts") and I DO find it objectionable on an otherwise great-running bike. I've tried the usual things like der. alignment, new cables/housings, etc. There's no obvious problem with the shifter, but I haven't rebuilt it lately.

I just got the Centaur UltraShift shifters I ordered from Ribble. The new hoods and levers are freakin' sweet. It will be interesting to do an A-B comparison when I swap those onto the bike with the Chorus levers. We'll see if it overshifts.

To get back on topic, I've been tempted to switch to SRAM, but I've got a significant investment in Campag. I'm giving Campag another shot by trying the newer stuff. I recommend you talk to some good bike mechanics about SRAM before you decide.

ETA: The shifters came with the updated mechanism. Nice clicks.

KS
 

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odd...

If the cable tension is set properly for shifts to larger cogs, then the shifts to smaller ones should be correct. If not, then the shifts to smaller cogs might hesitate if the cable friction is excessive.

I'm not clear on what's meant by overshifting. To me, that would mean jumping two cogs instead of one, when trying to make a 1-cog shift to a smaller cog.

The old style shifters can suffer from broken or worn out g-springs, a broken g-spring carrier and worn-out indexing gear. The g-spring carrier can also hang-up due to too much heavy grease around it. These are all common.

Switching to SRAM is no cure-all for shifting problems. I've read plenty of reports of prematurely failed SRAM shifters and they can't be repaired. SRAM will replace them, though.
 

· lodestar
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C-40 said:
If the cable tension is set properly for shifts to larger cogs, then the shifts to smaller ones should be correct. If not, then the shifts to smaller cogs might hesitate if the cable friction is excessive.

I'm not clear on what's meant by overshifting. To me, that would mean jumping two cogs instead of one, when trying to make a 1-cog shift to a smaller cog.

The old style shifters can suffer from broken or worn out g-springs, a broken g-spring carrier and worn-out indexing gear. The g-spring carrier can also hang-up due to too much heavy grease around it. These are all common.

Switching to SRAM is no cure-all for shifting problems. I've read plenty of reports of prematurely failed SRAM shifters and they can't be repaired. SRAM will replace them, though.
By "overshifting" I mean that shifts to smaller cogs go slightly too far. The derailleur pulley travels slightly past the index point directly over the cog. The difference is not enough to jump to the second cog, but it results in significant noise. If the cable tension is set correctly for shifts to smaller cogs, it does not shift correctly to larger cogs - and vice versa.

To further explain it if I shift, say, from the 16 to the 15, I get noise. Slightly pressing on the finger lever and releasing it removes the noise. If I shift past the 15 to the 14 and back to the 15, no noise.

The problem is most noticible in gear combinations that result in a straight chainline. As you've noted, those are most prone to noise, anyway. However, my other bike with Campag 10 is near perfect. So there's something going on.

Campag has been a bit hard for me to keep in tune. SRAM is "supposedly" less finicky because of the increased cable pull. Hence my temptation, now on hold pending more testing. :thumbsup:

KS
 

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thoughts...

You've got problems with a shifter that no amount of adjusting cable tension will fix that. The hard shifts to smaller cogs would say you need more cable tension. If the causes overshifting to larger cogs, then cable tension is not the issue.

To make a fair comparision, you should compare the new ultrashift levers to SRAM. The cable pull difference is trivial and won't help hold adjustment any better. The big difference is how the shifting mechanisms work - they are nothing a like.

One warning however. The new ultrashift mechanism is more sensitive to cable friction. You must use the low friction cable housing and not create tight bends that increase friction, or you'll suffer from hesitating shifts to smaller cogs.
 

· So. Calif.
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A few notes re Campy 11 ...

- Sometime in 2009, Campy revised the spacer between the 5th & 6th cogs, from 2.2 to 2.3mm width. A very minor change, but I'd at least want to be on most current revision. The 2.3mm spacer looks different than the other spacers, also it snaps into the front of the #6/7/8 cog triplet. The 2.3 spacer is available as a service part, for a few $. It's Campy part# CS-712.

- Each Campy 11 shifter has 2 separate guides for the shift cables, depending on whether the cable is to be routed in front of, or behind, the handlebars. Usually behind the bars provides the most gradual bends and lowest friction (critical), but select the cable routing that provides largest & most gentle radius of curvature on your handlebars.

- Rear derailleur cable loop: don't trim it, use the full length as supplied by Campy. It may seem a little long, but works best.

- My cable housings/casings had the factory lube injected predominantly on one end , same as the instruction sheet stated. I verified by poking the cable a few inches into each end of casing. The lubed casing end should be on the end toward shifter, so that as cable is pushed into casing, the lube is pushed & distributed throughout the length of casing. Some users have reported that their new casings already seemed to have lube on both ends, so maybe Campy's mfr procedures changed at some point.
 
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