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I have a female friend who's ready to upgrade her Dolce to a high end Frameset. She's leaning towards a Cervelo Carbon Soloist. what other high end frames comparable to a $2800 that has XS or 48cm with a 51TT. Thank You
 

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Orbea Orca. I have one but will be going to an R3 soon.
 

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Is she racing? has to have the absolute lightest? I suggest taking a look at something different like a female built frame such as Luna or Sweatpea.
You didn't say how tall she is but Cervelo isn't known for a great fit on smaller sizes.
 

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monkey with flamethrower
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For $2800 she could have a nice custom built titanium or steel bike from any number of highly skilled builders. If she wants to drop that kind of cash on just a frame going custom seems like the only logical option. Small people tend really benefit from a custom built bike becuase there really aren't that many options with bikes on the ends of the curve.
And most high end frames are geared towards racer dorks and have a fairly aggressive geometry that most recreational riders don't need.
 

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Diva for sure

The Orbea Diva may be the only WSD actually designed by a woman. Orbea Orca designer Miriam Bengoetxea is the brains behind the Diva and she makes sure the frame serves a woman's unique needs perfectly.
 

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BunnV said:
The Orbea Diva may be the only WSD actually designed by a woman. Orbea Orca designer Miriam Bengoetxea is the brains behind the Diva and she makes sure the frame serves a woman's unique needs perfectly.
IMO, an impossibility. That's on a par with saying someone designed a standard frame to meet a man's needs perfectly. Stock geometry cannot be all things to all cyclists, no matter the gender. That's what custom builders are for.
 

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monkey with flamethrower
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BunnV said:
The Orbea Diva may be the only WSD actually designed by a woman. Orbea Orca designer Miriam Bengoetxea is the brains behind the Diva and she makes sure the frame serves a woman's unique needs perfectly.
Really? Sounds like more marketing baloney to me.Trek, Giant, Specialized and whomever all have women who work for them and assist in designing and marketing womens specific bicycles.
Women have no different needs than men on a bicycle. Fit is top priority, and not all women are shaped the same. Saying that Orbeas womens specific geometry is the only fit that works for that of the female gender is like saying that Nike shoes are the only shoes that will fit women. There are some generalizations that can be made about women on bicycles, and companies incorporate the generalizations into their geometry. The womens specific fits tend to work fairly well in the small sizes for a lot of women, but not always.
More often than not, and the ladies will crucify me for this, women's specific geometries really aren't womens specific. Everyone is shaped differently and a lot of the time the women's specific geometries don't work for that specific woman. It takes someone with experience fitting bicycles, and a customer willing to choose from several brands, to get the right bicycle for you. If you are only willing to buy an Orbea bike, there is a chance that the Orbea may not work for you and you when say this Lemond will, or something like that. Women were fitting on bicycles perfectly fine for many years before the marketing machine found that they could make a lot of money selling 'womens specific everything'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Picshooter said:
Is she racing? has to have the absolute lightest? I suggest taking a look at something different like a female built frame such as Luna or Sweatpea.
You didn't say how tall she is but Cervelo isn't known for a great fit on smaller sizes.

She's not racing or plan on racing - she's just gonna use the bike on group weekend rides, charity rides or any bike tour event. Litespeed Bella was the other choice too. she's short about 5"flat. she wants a light bike and big name. lol I told her about the Orca Diva which is about $2400 frame, Bella is about $1900 for the frameset. She does not like Specialized WSD bikes and she wants something different. Hopefully the smallest Carbon Soloist fits her, coz I'm going with her to a lbs cervelo dealer and she's demoing one of them.
 

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I'm suprprised noone mentioned Calfee.

For that kind of money you could be looking at a very nice Luna or Tetra. They are light, well built bikes that aren't seen every day. 2800 is a good chunk and there are all kinds of options out there besides mainstream production bikes.
 

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Except they all have extremely steep seat tube angles. Thats the nice part about both the Orca and Cervelo. The STA for the Orca in a 48 is 73.7 and the Cervelo is at 73. The shallower the seat tube angle the shorter the reach. For short a person who is looking for a bike that fits correctly this should be one of the key measurements they are looking at.
I agree that poster who said WSD are full of BS. In Orbea's case the effective reach in relation to the bottem bracket is actually longer on the WSD 49 cm frame.
 

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poor choice...

The geometry on the two smallest sizes of Cervelos (except the RS) is very odd, with a very short front-center and too little steering trail. I would not recommend any model to a small rider.

I'll also add that you can't just compare the TT length to determine the reach of a frame. A frame with a longer 52cm TT length could have less reach than one with a 51cm TT, if the seat tube angle is 1-1.5 degrees smaller. Steep STAs increase the reach.

If you want a stiff frame that's a bargain, check out Excel Sports for the closeouts on '07 LOOK 585 Ultra frames. I got one a couple of weeks ago, after riding a 585 origin for over two years. Great frame for $1988.

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...ption=585+Ultra+Frameset+2007&vendorCode=LOOK
 

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rollinrob said:
Except they all have extremely steep seat tube angles. Thats the nice part about both the Orca and Cervelo. The STA for the Orca in a 48 is 73.7 and the Cervelo is at 73. The shallower the seat tube angle the shorter the reach. For short a person who is looking for a bike that fits correctly this should be one of the key measurements they are looking at.
I agree that poster who said WSD are full of BS. In Orbea's case the effective reach in relation to the bottem bracket is actually longer on the WSD 49 cm frame.



so why do most small frames- 49-50cm- have STAs of ~75 degrees?
 

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C-40 said:
The geometry on the two smallest sizes of Cervelos (except the RS) is very odd, with a very short front-center and too little steering trail. I would not recommend any model to a small rider.

If you want a stiff frame that's a bargain, check out Excel Sports for the closeouts on '07 LOOK 585 Ultra frames. I got one a couple of weeks ago, after riding a 585 origin for over two years. Great frame for $1988.

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...ption=585+Ultra+Frameset+2007&vendorCode=LOOK

I agree as well. I ride a Look KG 361 (49 size) and would love to have the XS 585 priced at $1900. When I lived in Florida I rode with a small group and some of the women (small) rode Calfee Lunas and seemed to fit very well on them, thus the suggestion.

As far seat tube angle is concerned, I think that has a lot to do with the particular rider and not a specific "It's too steep or slack" for a certain size. My Look has a 72.5' st angle which is real slack for a 49 size, and my fixed gear has a 75' st angle and both fit fine.

The KOP position can vary quite a bit from rider to rider and a good fitting would determine what range of st/tt combinations are best. For me, I'm not that sensitive that a centimeter one way or the other is going to make that much difference and "those exact measurements" on bikes may not be that "exact".
 

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FatTireFred said:
so why do most small frames- 49-50cm- have STAs of ~75 degrees?
Ya know, I don't know. I have a couple of catalogs from the early ninetys from trek that have a 50 cm bike with a seat tube angle at 73.5. I m not sure when they got so steep but I have owned more than enoguth 49-59cm (Trek 5200, Waterford 2200, Look 565, Cannondale Caad8). bike to know that a step seat tube angle makes the actual reach longer.
Case in point. I had a Look 565 XS. 49 CM with a 51.5 toptube. I had to use a 80mm stem to give me the same reach that I had on my Orbea Opal with a 90 mm stem. The difference is that I felt I could have gone longer in the stem length on th Orca with the slacker seat tube angle. I also had tons of knee pain while riding the look uphill. The Opal felt like I was slipping on an old comfy pair of shoes.. It just felt right. Perhaps I am built differently than others. I don't know.
I can say this about the Cervelos, they have done their homework. The only thing that they have done to there bikes is make them a bit lighter in the past three years. How many other manufacturers can saw that. Look, Specialized, Cannondale et all come out with a newer greater bike every year... You just have to wonder how much of this is marketing gimmicks and a ploy to make you spend your money so you get the latest and greatest. The TDF was won one a bike (Sastre rides an r3 SL) whose design is over three years old...
P.S. My next bike will likely be an Cervelo R3 because the geometry and rock solid engineering..
 

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il sogno said:
I love the Cervelo Carbon Soloist but for my money the Look 585 Elle rules. I am in the process of buying one now.
The 585 Optimum/Elle sounds like a nice ride. I didn't even know Look made something along the lines of the RS and Roubaix.
 
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