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Shirtcocker
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Discussion Starter #2
jtolleson said:
They should yank the accreditation of colleges who apparently confer "degrees" on folks who can't even perform skills that SHOULD be expected of high school graduates. Shame shame shame.
The part that got me was that basic literacy was only sightly higher in 4 year college students than in the general population. I would have thought college students would be way above the general curve for that kind of thing. Same with critical thinking skills.
 

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gazing from the shadows
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Yeah, it's real.

"Overall, the average literacy of college students is significantly higher than that of adults across the nation."

Start with stupid, end up with significantly less stupid.
 

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Resident Dutchbag
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Who cares. Their jobs will be outsourced anyway regardless of their skills.
 

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EuroCrash
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478 Posts
It comes from the lack of difficulty in the high schools. Too me, it is way to easy to graduate high school while still being a fool, all the result of standardized testing. No kid left behind just means that we'll let everybody pass such that all of us can go to college and get trophies.
 

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Banned forever.....or not
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"50% of 4 year college graduates lack basic skills"
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Are you saying that college students no longer learn how to drink beer from a kegger, while being held upside down?
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Do college graduates now puke on their shoes?
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Don't college grads know that it's not "cool" to pass out, 60 minutes after arriving at a party?
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Are you saying that college grads don't know that they can't drive a car after 12 beers?
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This is a disaster of major proportions.
 

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Are you saying that college students no longer learn how to drink beer from a kegger, while being held upside down?

Well, then it is good to know that Von would have graduated with honors.
:D
 

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Here's more surprise...

College of education majors score the lowest on SAT scores, and do the poorest when taking GRE, LSAT, or the MCAT later on when trying to go into grad school. And, the professors rank the lowest in terms of publishing peer reviewed articles.
 

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PsyDoc said:
College of education majors score the lowest on SAT scores, and do the poorest when taking GRE, LSAT, or the MCAT later on when trying to go into grad school. And, the professors rank the lowest in terms of publishing peer reviewed articles.
Yeah, but they probably do pretty well compared to other people preparing to enter a field where the starting pay is $25-30k.
 

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Life Coach
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I teach at a Research I University and I have to tell you, unfortunately, that it's true. Worse, many of the students know it. Some are ashamed, some are mad, and many are proud of how little they've managed to do with their time on campus. It's also true that they know more than the average person on the street. True AND scary, I suppose.

It's easy to toss the blame at the high school teachers, and I often do, a tendency only exacerbated by my contact with Education majors & the faculty of the College of Education. But it's really the result of what I see as large scale societal shift: College is the new high school. Everybody goes, most people get by somehow. What we used to expect out of a college graduate is generally now only seen from those with graduate & professional degrees--and that's not really saying much for anyone.

I could go on, of course, and at length. But I just came back from a great ride and I'd rather not convert that into anger and depression.
 

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be very, very afraid

PsyDoc said:
College of education majors score the lowest on SAT scores, and do the poorest when taking GRE, LSAT, or the MCAT later on when trying to go into grad school. And, the professors rank the lowest in terms of publishing peer reviewed articles.

I went to a private 4 year school, the education school (one of the higher ranked education programs in the country too) was the admissions loophole for almost every scholarship athlete. I was in the teaching program for one year, then bailed when I realized my parents were paying a ton of $$$ for me to sit in lectures with such riveting topics as "seating chart planning" and "proper use of the chalkboard." I showed a paper of mine written for an education class (grade was an A-) to one of my English professors, and he said he would've given it a C- just on grammar and sentence structure!

Unfortunately as much as I can complain, I can't really offer any viable solutions.
 

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Non non normal
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10,086 Posts
I think two major factors contribute to the problem.

First, I think that a much higher percentage of high school graduates attend college. I really don't think the percentage of the average high school graduate's IQ has increased, just the percentage that attend college.

The second reason is the economics of the academic community. It is shameful to realize the main goal of most colleges and universities are to make money, increase their size, grow their sports programs, and increase their grants. It is big business. It doesn't make sense to kick out a bunch of average students who wouldn't have survived in college 30 years ago. Just let them graduate with an easy major, take their money, and turn them loose with no skills and a long shot at getting a high paying job and getting out of debt.

There was a great article on grade creep at the Ivy League Universities over the past 30 years. It basically said that the majority of students received a C grade which was considered a decent grade. Now most students receive B grades or higher in their classes because everyone wants to be considered above average.
 

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bigrider said:
There was a great article on grade creep at the Ivy League Universities over the past 30 years. It basically said that the majority of students received a C grade which was considered a decent grade. Now most students receive B grades or higher in their classes because everyone wants to be considered above average.
So true, so true, if everyone is special, no one is, and this allows for the people that should be getting A's and B's, with no where to go. So I have a 4.0, if everyone else has a 4.0 (or allot of people), what does it mean? Nothing. And since it's relatively easy to get an A, I don't have to work very hard at all. I just go to class, turn in papers, go ride my bike, and get a A, sure I'd like to think that it's because I'm a super genius, but lets be real.... Honestly I learn more out of class than I do in class, reading books is where I get my education, sure those books come out of the Uni. library more often than not, so they are contributing.

And finally, HS is a joke, anyone who thinks differently, well, I'll just stop there.
 

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I just graduated with a B.S. in December...

The results cut across three types of literacy: analyzing news stories and other prose, understanding documents and having math skills needed for checkbooks or restaurant tips.

...and did not understand a thing from the linked news story! Furthermore, last night at dinner I "made a scene" by removing my shoes and socks to calculate the tip.

--

Sarcasm aside, I've truthfully never balanced a chequebook - even though I have one, and use it almost exclusively for rent & bills, I can just go online where it is done automatically(due to my "superior skills in searching and using information from texts and documents.") It's all about the debit card, baby. And my innate sense of knowing how much is in my account, as I have never overdrawn my account.

The one point I agree with is the credit-card offers thing. I bet a regressive study of the language used in these (and their increasingly widespread dispersion) would show the "deal" offered is now more complex and heavily laden with fiscal jargon. Isn't the legalese *supposed* to obfusicate the raw deal you'll get after the initial low-APR period is up?

I mean, like totally, duh.
 

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Darling of The Lounge
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4,739 Posts
My Rant

I have not been impressed with the modern education system lately. There has always been the notion to educate an individual just for the sake of it. I believe that all individuals should receive basic life skills training (Life 101) as a baseline. From there, more time and analysis should be devoted to test a student and find out what areas they show the strongest aptitude and interest in. I feel it’s a waste of time and resources sending a person to school to have he or she flounder because they are not interested or cannot grasp the subject matter. Let’s face it, we all can’t be all physicists nor should aspire to be if our heart is not in it
 

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Strained coccyx etc etc
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that's one of the reasons i quit high school (before getting the GED and a 2-year tech degree). it was a joke.

we keep PC'ing and dumbing-down everything and what do we get?

non-PC yet dumbed-down college grads.

WTF is all this sports sh*t anyway?

it BLOWS MY BRAINS OUT that colleges are THAT into sports as to push moreons through class with failing performance yet PASSING grades, to play _______ball.

idiots.
 

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a jumped up pantry boy
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haiku d'etat said:
it BLOWS MY BRAINS OUT that colleges are THAT into sports as to push moreons through class with failing performance yet PASSING grades, to play _______ball.

idiots.
man, youd be amazed. basketball is big at my college and the basketball players are NEVER in class. they get all sorts of breaks on deadlines and are still dumb as a rock. sure playing basketball is fun, but what are you gonna do when you graduate and your dumber then when you started?

i think that the lack of basic skills starts earlier then college though. in many of the classes that you have to take (ie: freshman composition., assorted math classes, basically intro stuff) they expect you to know the basic ideas of the subject BEFORE you come into the class. youd be amazed at the number of remedial english classes that are offered on campus. the ball is being dropped in highschool and the results arent being seen until college.

like one of the basketball players in my math class said, "C's and D's get degrees"
 
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