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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
7

Have a 7sp bar end friction shift rain bike, 130 spaced rear, 39t single front chainring.

Possible to stick in a 10sp rear wheel, change the chain to 10sp and have a friction shift 10 speed.

Clearly headaches could be at the RD and front chainring. Anything I’m missing?

Thanks
 

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Friction 10

GH-Mike said:
Have a 7sp bar end friction shift rain bike, 130 spaced rear, 39t single front chainring. Possible to stick in a 10sp rear wheel, change the chain to 10sp and have a friction shift 10 speed. Clearly headaches could be at the RD and front chainring. Anything I’m missing?
The main problem might be that it will take a lot less lever movement to shift a 10 than a 7, and so it might be harder to execute a shift with great precision. Whether that is a problem for you will be a combination of your skills and your setup. The RD just moves the chain, so in principle it will work, but with the same issues as the shifters. Narrower pulleys MIGHT be needed, but might not. New front chainring likely will not be needed. All that said, any time you want do execute a kludge, you just have to try it and see how it works. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it sucks, and sometimes it's "good enough."
 

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GH-Mike said:
7

Have a 7sp bar end friction shift rain bike, 130 spaced rear, 39t single front chainring.

Possible to stick in a 10sp rear wheel, change the chain to 10sp and have a friction shift 10 speed.

Clearly headaches could be at the RD and front chainring. Anything I’m missing?

Thanks
No reason it won't work without any other equipment changes, but 10 speeds will take a real delicate touch if you want to be clean and precise. For everyday riding, you can make it happen. I friction shift 9 speeds, and it admits to no slop. But I'm in no hurry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I had thought through the tech stuff - pulleys, rd, chain, etc but not the micro adjust factor. Should be fun to shift. It’s on an old rain bike that I want to have tighter spacing. I’m going for it. My gut is it will work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Kludge?

Kerry Irons said:
All that said, any time you want do execute a kludge, you just have to try it and see how it works. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it sucks, and sometimes it's "good enough."

Dude – the most important thing about your reply is you gave me a new word – KLUDGE
Had to google it. Same as FrankinBike – but better sounding.

Should have time this weekend to execute the kludge. Technically, pulleys have been my concern – I think the rest will work.
 

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According to Lennard Zinn it should work just fine. Probably give you better shifting as it's "analog" adjustment versus "digital".

Go for it! (& let's hear the results)
 

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Check that the skinny 10 spd chain doesn't 'skate' or jam between chainrings when downshifting.

I had a nice 9 spd friction setup on an old campi drivetrain, used shims to fit shimano jockey wheels - sweet upgrade!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bill Silverman said:
According to Lennard Zinn it should work just fine. Probably give you better shifting as it's "analog" adjustment versus "digital".

Go for it! (& let's hear the results)
Funny i switch between two bikes frequently depending on weather. Rain = analog, non-wet=digital. Both have a place but can mess with the brain. Ever reach for the clutch in an automatic. Hey if Zin gives the thumbs up - I'm in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Dizzy812 said:
Check that the skinny 10 spd chain doesn't 'skate' or jam between chainrings when downshifting.

I had a nice 9 spd friction setup on an old campi drivetrain, used shims to fit shimano jockey wheels - sweet upgrade!
Only a 39 up front. Again, more concerned about Jockey pulleys. Like your shim approach.
 

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GH-Mike said:
7

Have a 7sp bar end friction shift rain bike, 130 spaced rear, 39t single front chainring.

Possible to stick in a 10sp rear wheel, change the chain to 10sp and have a friction shift 10 speed.

Clearly headaches could be at the RD and front chainring. Anything I’m missing?

Thanks
Jockey pulleys don't tend to engage a lot of chain, so there's a chance they'll be OK. One concern is that guide (upper) pulleys for 10 speed have some float to allow some margin - it could make for some noisiness if yours don't.

Also depending on the exact nature of your cable pulls and whether it's a true friction or a ratcheted one, you might find it difficult to find a noisless spot in one gear or another. If it happens, a twist of the adjusting barrel should help - but might create another odd spot elsewhere.

Weren't we discussing this with Command shifters? If so, I'll be interested to hear the outcome. I'm working a bike back to friction, too - but with downtube shifting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
danl1 said:
Jockey pulleys don't tend to engage a lot of chain, so there's a chance they'll be OK. One concern is that guide (upper) pulleys for 10 speed have some float to allow some margin - it could make for some noisiness if yours don't.

Also depending on the exact nature of your cable pulls and whether it's a true friction or a ratcheted one, you might find it difficult to find a noisless spot in one gear or another. If it happens, a twist of the adjusting barrel should help - but might create another odd spot elsewhere.

Weren't we discussing this with Command shifters? If so, I'll be interested to hear the outcome. I'm working a bike back to friction, too - but with downtube shifting.
This setup uses old suntour barends on drop bars. this version suntour does have what I would describe as a micro ratchet. Let you know how it goes.
 

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A floating upper pulley would quiet your drivetrain nicely. Since you are using bar-ends the extra cable adds some slop, compared to DT shifters, to the shifting and having the floating jockey wheel might help your sanity. I would not run 10-speed with bar-ends but DT shifters, not a problem. The one bike I have bar-ends on is a 7-speed setup.
 

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You sound like a guy with enough friction-shifting experience to have the necessary "touch" to pull this off.

Funny that you come from a tech-aware place and are tech-aware enough yourself to use the analog/digital analogy, but you never heard of a kludge -- the most common uses of the word these days are in the software field (example: monopolist software maker whose flagship products ship with huge security holes and other bugs that are repaired with repeated kludges, each of which causes additional problems).

All of the cautions about floating pulleys and cable-run slop are far more relevant for indexed systems. If you have the ear for it, the sound of a noisy chain will tell you whether its over or under-shifted, and after a while the necessary trimming will be almost second-nature..

You can do it!
 

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danl1 said:
Jockey pulleys don't tend to engage a lot of chain, so there's a chance they'll be OK. One concern is that guide (upper) pulleys for 10 speed have some float to allow some margin - it could make for some noisiness if yours don't.

Also depending on the exact nature of your cable pulls and whether it's a true friction or a ratcheted one, you might find it difficult to find a noisless spot in one gear or another. If it happens, a twist of the adjusting barrel should help - but might create another odd spot elsewhere.

Weren't we discussing this with Command shifters? If so, I'll be interested to hear the outcome. I'm working a bike back to friction, too - but with downtube shifting.
Command shifters? Did I hear Command shifters? Who has Command shifters?

I have a bike with the later, black Command shifters indexing a 105 RD fairly successfully. No matter how you jack with the tension or the B screw, there will always be one cog a little noisy, which requires that you move the shifter a touch without quite making it click. But aside from that tiny annoyance, it's pretty cool. People ask me all the time: What are those WINGNUT things on your bike? LOL.
 

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I have a touring bike with 9sp and old bar end shifters. I miss a few shifts and jump over a cog once in a while, but it's a helluva lot less annoying when I do it than when an indexed system does it.
 

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danl1 said:


Sweetness. Simplicity.
Yep, I got those AND those brakes too, I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
C+ - Kludge

OK, upside first – It works and I get the bigger range tighter spacing I was looking for. Slapped in the wheel, swapped chains, adjusted RD. Very quite operation.

Unexpected down sides – 1. The bar end shifter doesn’t have enough throw to get the RD to the low 26T cog. (solution pull the cable by hand) 2. Chain wants to ride off the FR chain ring when moving down the cluster. My chain guard is a modified 42t ring with the teeth machined off. A larger guard would certainly fix.
 

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Did you push the right shift lever all the way forward before attaching the cable at the derailleur? That's a Suntour ratcheting shifter, right? I noticed that my older Shimano bar-end shifter (with the internal spring to reduce the shifting effort) has a larger barrel and that it pulls more cable than my Suntour ratcheting shifter.

You could always file off some of the housing at the top of the shifter where the lever hits it at maximum throw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Squidward said:
Did you push the right shift lever all the way forward before attaching the cable at the derailleur? That's a Suntour ratcheting shifter, right? I noticed that my older Shimano bar-end shifter (with the internal spring to reduce the shifting effort) has a larger barrel and that it pulls more cable than my Suntour ratcheting shifter.

You could always file off some of the housing at the top of the shifter where the lever hits it at maximum throw.
really good thoughts - I was debating the filing modifications. thanks.

Update - file job worked - need to take about 1/8"

NICE!
 
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