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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m the proud owner of a 1993 Trek 2100. Ain’t she beautiful!

Bicycle frame Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel rim Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Mode of transport

The brake hoods are pretty beat up so I was thinking about new hoods or levers. But that got me thinking, “if I’m going to replace the levers, why not get some integrated shifters?”

Before I commit to that, I want to spec out the parts required / cost of the project.

I think I’ve got a good idea of what is and isn’t needed but wanted to make sure I’m not overlooking anything. So, if you could take a quick look at lists below and provide some feedback, I’d appreciate it!

What I’ve got:
- original Shimano 105 groupset (2x7 downtube shifters, front & rear derailleurs, 53/39 double crankset)
- 8/9/10 speed rear hub (running 7spd cassette with a spacer).

I definitely need:
- 2x10 shifters (planning on going with Shimano 5700)
- downtube adapters
- 10 speed cassette
- 10 speed chain

I don’t think I need:
- new crankset or chainring
- new front derailleur

I’m not sure if I need:
- new rear derailleur
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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You should be good w/ what you think you need. New shifters should work fine w/ your derailleurs and crank.
 

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You might also look at Shimano ST-R701 shifters. They are Ultegra quality 10 speed shifters that cost $10 more than 5700 STI's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You might also look at Shimano ST-R701 shifters. They are Ultegra quality 10 speed shifters that cost $10 more than 5700 STI's.
I was not aware of the ST-R701. Thanks for alerting me to them.

They look very similar to the Ultegra 6600. I took a look at the 6600 (and 5600 and 7800 - the 105 and Dura Ace from that generation).

Functionally I'm sure they're just as good. But cosmetically I'm not a fan of that generation. (1) The finish on those models seems to get beat up real easy, (2) the shape looks a bit clunky (perhaps due to the Flight Deck stuff I don't need?) and (3) I prefer the look of the shifter cable routed under the cork.

I wouldn't be opposed to the 6700 but they're $200+ on ebay whereas the 5700 I can score for about $115.

You WILL need a new rear derailleur.
Ok, so obviously the 5600, 5700, 6600, 6700 rear derailleurs will work as they came equipped on 10 speed bikes. And the 6600 look rather plentiful and cheap on eBay.

But don't underetimate how cheap I am. So, how far back can I go and get a compatible rear derailleur. Will Shimano derailleurs that came on 8 speed bikes work with 10? What about those that came on 9 speed bikes?
 

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Ok, so obviously the 5600, 5700, 6600, 6700 rear derailleurs will work as they came equipped on 10 speed bikes. And the 6600 look rather plentiful and cheap on eBay.

But don't underetimate how cheap I am. So, how far back can I go and get a compatible rear derailleur. Will Shimano derailleurs that came on 8 speed bikes work with 10? What about those that came on 9 speed bikes?
I could be wrong, but I don't think you will need a rear derailleur unless the pull ratios are different. I don't know for sure if Shimano changed the pull ratios between your current generation and the 5700/6700/7900. Rear derailleurs do not care how many speeds the shifters are. Any 8, 9 or 10-speed Shimano rear road derailleurs will work for sure. As long as the front derailleur is a 2-speed, not a 3-speed, it will work. I would try the existing derailleurs and see if they work.

IMO, if looking for 10x2 shifters, I would look for 5600/6600 (Flightdeck) rather than 5700/6700. While the under-the-tape design certainly looks neater, Shimano's newer shifters like the chew up the rear shifter cable every 2000 miles or so. This is a source of frustration for me and other riders I know. The downside is that you will be hard pressed to find new 5600/6600 shifters except possibly on eBay from vendors in Asia. I have no idea what the duties are to bring those over to the USA and you won't find out until AFTER you buy and it get tacked onto your bill. There are plenty of used shifters on eBay, but most look badly beaten up and it's a crap shoot as to how well they will work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I could be wrong, but I don't think you will need a rear derailleur unless the pull ratios are different.
The consensus seems to be that my existing rear derailleur is sufficient.

According to this very useful article, Shimano road RD's had the same 1.7:1 ratio from 6-speed to 10-speed. Art's Cyclery Blog » Science Behind the Magic | Drivetrain Compatibility
This seem to confirm the consensus opinion. Thank you!


IMO, if looking for 10x2 shifters, I would look for 5600/6600 (Flightdeck) rather than 5700/6700. While the under-the-tape design certainly looks neater, Shimano's newer shifters like the chew up the rear shifter cable every 2000 miles or so. This is a source of frustration for me and other riders I know. The downside is that you will be hard pressed to find new 5600/6600 shifters except possibly on eBay from vendors in Asia. I have no idea what the duties are to bring those over to the USA and you won't find out until AFTER you buy and it get tacked onto your bill. There are plenty of used shifters on eBay, but most look badly beaten up and it's a crap shoot as to how well they will work.
I'll definitely be making some compromises no matter which way I go.

5600/6600 have less bend in cable so they pull is cleaner. But 5700/6700 look better out of the box and are less susceptible to scratches and dings.

Used costs less but comes with some miles, wear and tear. NOS avoids this but costs more.

Will take your advice into consideration as I weigh these choices. Thanks!
 

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Not sure about 6 and 7 speed, but 8,9,&10 speed Ultegra are compatible. You can add 9 & 10 speed Dura Ace in there, too.....8 speed Dura Ace is not compatible.
 

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Brake cable pull ratio is different 7 speed to 10 speed.
Try it and see if you are ok with the feel change when using the old brakes.
Will feel stiffer less power as 10 speed pulls more cable.
It may or may not be a challenge or opportunity for you.
Just be aware.
 

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does that bike have an aluminum rear triangle spaced at 126mm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Brake cable pull ratio is different 7 speed to 10 speed.
Try it and see if you are ok with the feel change when using the old brakes.
Will feel stiffer less power as 10 speed pulls more cable.
It may or may not be a challenge or opportunity for you.
Just be aware.
Thanks for letting me know. I found this article that discusses the topic. It states:
The newer style shifters with the shifter cables run under the tape pull more brake cable per pull than the older levers. So, if you were to use a Dura Ace 9000 caliper with a Dura Ace 7800 lever, the lever feel would be too mushy. So mushy in fact that it’s dangerous. If you did the reverse, with a 9000 lever and a 7800 caliper, the lever feel is very firm and lacks power and modulation. It isn’t as dangerous as an old lever with a new brake, but is obviously less than ideal.
This doesn't make sense to me. If the new levers pull more cable I'd expect "the lever feel is very firm powerful but lacks modulation."

I'm not suggesting Art's is wrong... just having trouble wrapping my head around this.

Either way I'll take it slow the first few rides post-conversion to see how the brakes feel and if I'm comfortable with the old caliper / new lever combo.

does that bike have an aluminum rear triangle spaced at 126mm?

Yes, it's been spread (but not cold set) for about 10 years now. Takes a slight bit of extra effort to change the rear wheel but not much. Actually pretty easy to get in / out.
 

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I'm not suggesting Art's is wrong
You are confused.

The Art's article is talking only about shifting, not braking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You are confused.

The Art's article is talking only about shifting, not braking.
There at two Art's articles linked in this thread. The one you linked to (the shifting article) and the one I linked to (the braking article).

Check out the braking article.
 

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Check out the braking article.
As stated, newer shifters pull more brake cable. You would be using newer shifters with older calipers. In your case, braking will be firmer and lack good modulation. While that is not optimal, it's far better than the other way.

Note: Shimano changed brake cable pull ratios on generation 5700/6700. If you go with 5600/6600 (Flight Deck), this will be a non-issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
In your case, braking will be firmer and lack good modulation. While that is not optimal, it's far better than the other way.
I understand and agree with what you said about the firm feel and less modulation with the new levers and old calipers.

The part I don't get is that the Art's article also says this combo would lack power.

With more cable being pulled, my guess would be that there would be more power.

Note: Shimano changed brake cable pull ratios on generation 5700/6700. If you go with 5600/6600 (Flight Deck), this will be a non-issue.
Roger that. Thank you.
 

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More cable pulled = less leverage = less clamping force.

Is what they mean by "less power".

I'm guessing it will be fine. The original 105 brakes were a good design.
 

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does that bike have an aluminum rear triangle spaced at 126mm?
This is something to think about. I had a Cannondale with 7-speed components years ago. It had a 126 mm rear spaced triangle. I put 8-speed Ultegra on it after some years -- that has 130 mm spacing. I had to grab the seat stays and pry them apart a little to get the rear wheel in. It wouldn't center. After a few years, the bike broke near one of the drop outs. I assume the spacing was the culprit.

You're going to need new wheels. Or at least a new rear one.
 
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