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I took a short 10 year layoff from road racing. I have returned to a see a big change in equipment technology. I have 2 Waterford Paramounts one '87 (SLX) & the other '91 (OS) both in excellent condition. Both Campy Record equiped. Dose the newer technology (carbon fiber or other exotic) offer much advantage?
 

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For a racer perhaps.

mleeroof said:
Does the newer technology (carbon fiber or other exotic) offer much advantage?
If you just like to ride-the pedals still require the steady application of force to make the bike move forward, brakes still require hand effort to slow the bike, gear levers must still be touched and the rider still has to balance and steer the bike (the darn things still fall down when left to their own devices).

Probably the biggest change that actually has made a difference in the last 10 years is reduced spoke count wheels. Likely getting a set of those will increase your speed over distance (I haven't found it to be true for me but I am slow).

Those are some sweet bikes you have there.
 

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Define "much advantage". I would agree with MB and say there is a little advantage to the latest and greatest. But it isn't big enough for me to ride a carbon or aluminum bike. You have arguablay a pair of the finest bikes made. Waterford still makes them the same way today. Today's uber bikes are lighter but I don't care about weight much myself. Any bike under 22.5 is good enough for me. If you want though I'll take those great riding, out dated, non techno, heavy bikes off your hands so you can try a new wonder bike.
 

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mleeroof said:
I took a short 10 year layoff from road racing. I have returned to a see a big change in equipment technology. I have 2 Waterford Paramounts one '87 (SLX) & the other '91 (OS) both in excellent condition. Both Campy Record equiped. Dose the newer technology (carbon fiber or other exotic) offer much advantage?

quick...post pictures!!!
 

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No, even if you are racing IMO.

The engine matters the most. Fact is, you might what to upgrade the components if you are going to start racing a lot, but otherwise, no.

again, maybe the biggest upgrade you could make are lighter/newer wheels and lighter seat post, seat, and handlebars if you really want to drop some weight.
 

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mleeroof said:
I took a short 10 year layoff from road racing. I have returned to a see a big change in equipment technology. I have 2 Waterford Paramounts one '87 (SLX) & the other '91 (OS) both in excellent condition. Both Campy Record equiped. Dose the newer technology (carbon fiber or other exotic) offer much advantage?
Sadly, yes. The laws of physics changed drastically in 2002. It is now impossible to force a ferrous bike to move forward by pushing on the pedals. If you need to get rid of those useless piles of iron and carbon, please send them to me. I will find a smelter for them somewhere.

But seriously, those sound like GORGEOUS bicycles. Please do post pics.

As to advantages... I would ride them and see. MB1's sage advice about wheels sounds good to me if you plan on racing them. If you are getting back into racing, I'd certainly ride what you got for a while. Depending on what kind of racing you are doing, they very well might do just fine. If you need to upgrade wheels or frame, you will find out soon enough and seat-of-the-pants experience will guide you toward the right bicycle for you.

If you do decide you need a new bike to keep competitive, please see my previous offer to find a good home for those crumby old antiques taking up space in your garage. ;)

- FBB
 

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Your situation is much like mine. I took a 10 year lay off and started riding again 2 years ago. I have a Paramount I think either an 86 or 87 and a 89 Tesch. My son has the Paramount and I couldn't get it back :-(
So my decision was to either rebuild the Tesch or get a new bike. The Tesch is designed for crits, not for longer rides on rough roads. I needed a new paint job, replace the sew up wheels, and change the shifters and drive train from 7 speed friction/index to 10. This was going to cost a lot of money and I would still have an uncomfotable frame. I have a friend that is a custom frame builder and I decided to have him build me a frame and fork. The specs are very close to the Paramount. The main difference is that steel today is lighter, stronger and more rust resistent. But I wouldn't be any faster. Having a custom bike is cool so is riding a 87 Paramount. I would have saved around $1200 painting and rebuilding the Paramount, but my son has had it so many years I think he ownes it by adverse possession.

P.S. I've been doing a Tuesday night "training ride" that consists of racers, tri guys and really strong rec riders. I'm one of few guys on steel. This week I was riding stronger/faster than a guy lots younger than me on a C 50 with Zipp 404 wheels. His bike was a least 4 lbs lighter and cost twice as much money. I admit the course is flat. I don't know if hills would have made a difference, but in our rollers and short steep hills, I don't think so.

Rebuild the Paramount with modern equiptment. If it needs paint, send it to Waterford.
 

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My all-time favorite bike to ride is an '83 Paramount that I fitted with modern components after it was refinished at Waterford.

Maybe it's a little heavy by today's standards, but the familiar handling, great ride, and classic looks are what do it for me -
 

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Waterford-built frames are intended to be lifetime purchases. You can send them back to Waterford to be stripped, realigned, and repainted. The result will essentially be a brand-new frame that will cost far, far less than anything else you can go out and buy. If they are scratched up, or you just want a new color, get 'em repainted. Otherwise, ride them as-is and enjoy!
 

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Todd,

I would agree with you on the lifetime purchase on older Waterfords. Do think the same is true of todays Waterfords?

Roof,

Great rides. What size are they? I can take them off your hands so you can go out and purchase some carbon crud. How much?
 

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Wonderful Waterford

I own many bikes -some are obscenely expensive. I owned a 93 Waterford Paramount which I loved but was a tad on the small size - my addiction forced the sale of a few bikes and the Paramount was included only because a professional bike fitter told me it was undersized for my 6'-4" frame - he ruined it for me. I always new it was a little small but loved the ride qualities of the frame.

He kind of ruined it for me as I respect his opinion - however I thought the ride, tracking and stability was on par with anything I owned - which includes some: fancy ti/carbon Serotta, Pegoretti, Merckx etc.

If you love the fit get it refinished - put on updated components and new rubber - you can not go wrong!

If any one has a big Paramount Waterford they want to unload - there is always room for one more hook.:thumbsup:
 

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I had the 50th Anniversary Paramount. I stripped the frame and had it repainted by one of the former IF welder/painters. The frame was the old sunburst orange fading to maroon towards the back. The head lugs and fork crown lucks were painted the same maroon.

The bike rode much nicer than any other bike I've owned (up until my current IF). The steel fork allowed the bike to corner like it was on rails. The tubing was SLX so it was really stiff for sprinting, but not so much that it kicked you in the chamois.

Sadly, I sold the frame. I'm still not too sure why I did it, maybe I was drunk, or just plain stupid - probably the later. DO NOT sell the bikes! Hold on to them and just love them like they should be.

And yes....please post some pics!
 

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Truth Hurts said:
Todd,

I would agree with you on the lifetime purchase on older Waterfords. Do think the same is true of todays Waterfords?
For sure. The Waterfords made today are better than ever. Really.
 

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Paramount is King

I agree with most of the posters here. I love Paramounts, even the Japanese ones. In fact that's where my love affair with Paramount began. I just picked up a 650c Paramount frame that I'm slowling putting together. But here's my pride and joy: a team Wheaties Paramount (serial #9). She rides and races well!
 

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If the 91 (OS) model is 753, you won't gain much in a more modern frame. A friend of mine has a 93 Waterford 753 ( I think the first year that they sold under the Waterford name). His still used the Campy dropouts, and he still races it.
 

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Truth Hurts said:
Todd,

I would agree with you on the lifetime purchase on older Waterfords. Do think the same is true of todays Waterfords?

Roof,
Not in my experience. I have a fairly new Waterford RS-22. Gorgeous bike, and I've ridden it hundreds of miles since I got it earlier this year. There is some problem with the paint - it chips off at the slightest provocation. There are chips in the top tub, fork, seat stays, and especially the chainsty at the rear dropouts.

Yes, I know this would be covered under warranty, but I had such a negative experience with them when I had the frame built, I've vowed never to deal with them again. They are truly lacking in customer service, in my experience. I can't recommend that anyone have any dealings with Waterford. I do love the bike, though.

 

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this phenomenom occured in my latitude shortly after aquiring a colnago made of some kinda plasticy fibrous stuff, i found my ferrous wilier nemo will no longer become propelled of my own power.




fbagatelleblack said:
Sadly, yes. The laws of physics changed drastically in 2002. It is now impossible to force a ferrous bike to move forward by pushing on the pedals.
If you do decide you need a new bike to keep competitive, please see my previous offer to find a good home for those crumby old antiques taking up space in your garage. ;)

- FBB
 

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2 major improvements are the shifters- 9, 10 speed shifting much better than my 7 speed shifters. Also threadless stems are way better than threaded- (there are adapters for this) Much stiffer and easier to swap stem adjust headset. you would need to get frame realigned to 8/9/10 rear axle length if you have 7 speed
 
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