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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone

This one is for sizing gurus. I am not one of those!

I have poor back flexibility and only tolerate about 40-45 mm saddle to bar drop. I ride a 54.6cm TT Madone (size 54cm) and this requires ~30mm of spacers and +8 degree 110mm stem. The bar height is ~92.0 cm (or a touch less) and centre-cranks to top of saddle height is ~72.2cm. Saddle nose (Aliante) to bar distance is ~75.5 cm (give or take 3mm). I am ~174cm tall (5' 8.5" ?) and have 83cm inseam, 66kg (145 lbs?), male.

Firstly, can I assume that BB height (off the floor) of Madone and Look is the same?

If I bought a 53cm Look 555 (thanks C-40 for the initial frame sizing) then in order to get the desired ~92cm handlebar height with a +6 or +8 degree 110mm stem, i.e. facing up, how many mm of spacers would I need? Still 30mm of spacer or perhaps less due to longer head tube?

thank you in advance
 

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Funny, you sound like my twin.
I'm 5'8" with a black 585. 53cm
Hopefully the 555 is not that different.

Seat: SLR xp
Stem: Newton 31.8, 6degree, flipped down, 110mm.
Thomson straight post: Saddle 6mm back from center.
Seat to floor: 96.5cm
Crank to seat: 72cm
Seat nose to center of hbar clamp: 52.5cm
Top of bars to ground: 92cm
Spacers:2.5mm

When i ride it, the fit feels perfect. When i sit idle, i keep thinking of trying a 100mm stem. I'm ok flexy, fingers touch ground.
Also will try removing 5-10mm more stem spacers.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Spacers:2.5mm ?

rensho said:
Funny, you sound like my twin.
I'm 5'8" with a black 585. 53cm
Hopefully the 555 is not that different.

Seat: SLR xp
Stem: Newton 31.8, 6degree, flipped down, 110mm.
Thomson straight post: Saddle 6mm back from center.
Seat to floor: 96.5cm
Crank to seat: 72cm
Seat nose to center of hbar clamp: 52.5cm
Top of bars to ground: 92cm
Spacers:2.5mm

When i ride it, the fit feels perfect. When i sit idle, i keep thinking of trying a 100mm stem. I'm ok flexy, fingers touch ground.
Also will try removing 5-10mm more stem spacers.
thanks. did you meant to say 2.5 CM not MM, i.e. 25mm right?

I can not touch the floor with my fingers, I get to about ~4 inches above the floor, if I bend forward, zero flexibility and some lower back problems too (discomfort, not bicycle related).

You seem to sit at least 25mm+ more forward than I do, in relation to BB. I tried it more forward and I ended up with too much weight on my neck and shoulders and felt like folling forward onto the handle bars. When I moved my saddle back ~20-25mm I found there is much less pressure on my upper back and I feel more balanced on the bike. My knee is about 1 inch behind the KOPS now. For me KOPS does not work, at least on Madone it does not. Behind the KOPS by ~20-25mm meant that my performance improved ~10%. Go figure. It is more an art than a science to find optimal position on a road bicycle.

It sounds like I would end up with ~30mm of spacers on Look 555 then..... Same as Madone. I thought the longer Look 555 head tube would mean less spacers.
 

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5'8" also. Ride a 461 (similar to 555 in geometry). 2.5 cm stack. Run 1.5 later in the season. Fit is art guided by science. Watch using bar to floor height. bb height varies from a bit from brand to brand.
 

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4" from floor is poor flexibility??

I have not been able to touch my toes since I started cyclocross racing again (about 5 yrs) - all the running and riding has tightened my hamstrings to piano wire like tension.
And I thought I was fairly flexible :-( ooh well

My set up is fairly similar. I ride a 53cm 555, 5' 10" with a 32.5" inseam
Set up: 120mm stem 6 degree rise flipped down.
SLR set back 85mm
15mm spacer
Seat nose to stem is 555mm I believe (from memory)

This set up feels great but I had been dropping a spacer every few weeks starting at approx 40mm. Now after not riding since last fall my back feels tight. So I usually tilt the shifters up a few degrees until the back loosens up then slowly drop back down. If I didn't care so much about looks I wouldnt go through so much trouble but I hate to see stems waay up in the air. But thats just me.
 

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acid_rider said:
thanks. did you meant to say 2.5 CM not MM, i.e. 25mm right?

I can not touch the floor with my fingers, I get to about ~4 inches above the floor, if I bend forward, zero flexibility and some lower back problems too (discomfort, not bicycle related).

You seem to sit at least 25mm+ more forward than I do, in relation to BB. I tried it more forward and I ended up with too much weight on my neck and shoulders and felt like folling forward onto the handle bars. When I moved my saddle back ~20-25mm I found there is much less pressure on my upper back and I feel more balanced on the bike. My knee is about 1 inch behind the KOPS now. For me KOPS does not work, at least on Madone it does not. Behind the KOPS by ~20-25mm meant that my performance improved ~10%. Go figure. It is more an art than a science to find optimal position on a road bicycle.

It sounds like I would end up with ~30mm of spacers on Look 555 then..... Same as Madone. I thought the longer Look 555 head tube would mean less spacers.
Yes, i meant 2.5cm.

I run ~10mm behind KOPS
 

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Discussion Starter #7
so what is the floor to top of handle-bars (tops) distance?

dreww said:
I have not been able to touch my toes since I started cyclocross racing again (about 5 yrs) - all the running and riding has tightened my hamstrings to piano wire like tension.
And I thought I was fairly flexible :-( ooh well

My set up is fairly similar. I ride a 53cm 555, 5' 10" with a 32.5" inseam
Set up: 120mm stem 6 degree rise flipped down.
SLR set back 85mm
15mm spacer
Seat nose to stem is 555mm I believe (from memory)

This set up feels great but I had been dropping a spacer every few weeks starting at approx 40mm. Now after not riding since last fall my back feels tight. So I usually tilt the shifters up a few degrees until the back loosens up then slowly drop back down. If I didn't care so much about looks I wouldnt go through so much trouble but I hate to see stems waay up in the air. But thats just me.
with your 15mm spacer and your stem what is the floor to the handle-bar-tops distance?

I was told that not being able to touch the floor means poor flexibility. I was not happy about it either ! 8^(
 

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acid_rider said:
with your 15mm spacer and your stem what is the floor to the handle-bar-tops distance?
I was told that not being able to touch the floor means poor flexibility. I was not happy about it either ! 8^(
Without measuring I haven't the faintest idea - will check tonite for you.
Is this an important measurement? I always thought that seat to bar height and seat to stem length were the yard stick measurements?

The reason I ask is I use the above #'s on all my bikes (road, CX, MTB and track) but if I measure floor to bar then bottom/bracket and tire height make a big difference?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I do not want to end up with 30mm of spacers or high rise +stem

dreww said:
Without measuring I haven't the faintest idea - will check tonite for you.
Is this an important measurement? I always thought that seat to bar height and seat to stem length were the yard stick measurements?

The reason I ask is I use the above #'s on all my bikes (road, CX, MTB and track) but if I measure floor to bar then bottom/bracket and tire height make a big difference?
thanks, please do. It is important to me not to end up with a high rise stem and/or 30+mm of spacers because it looks odd. So I would like to pick a frame size/geometry such that, ideally, I do not use any more than 20-25mm of spacers and nothing more than +6 degree stem (or much better a -6 degree stem!) to reach 92cm handle bar height. I am assuming the bottom bracket on current range of road bicycles from Trek Madone, Look 5x5, etc is the same else it will affect the numbers.

Thanks in advance
 

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acid_rider said:
thanks, please do. It is important to me not to end up with a high rise stem and/or 30+mm of spacers because it looks odd. So I would like to pick a frame size/geometry such that, ideally, I do not use any more than 20-25mm of spacers and nothing more than +6 degree stem (or much better a -6 degree stem!) to reach 92cm handle bar height. I am assuming the bottom bracket on current range of road bicycles from Trek Madone, Look 5x5, etc is the same else it will affect the numbers.

Thanks in advance
88.5mm

Drew
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks

dreww said:
88.5mm

Drew
Thank you. This does not "look" (pun intended) promising. If I add 15mm of spacer (to your 15mm) and then I flip the stem up to +6 then I get to ~92cm handlebar height. But 30mm of spacer with a flipped up stem is what I am trying to avoid. I already have 30mm of spacer on my Madone with +6 degree 110mm stem and it looks a bit odd. If Look 555 53cm will end up looking as odd then there is no point buying it. I think I need something with longer head tube like a Specialized Roubaix carbon, for example.

Rensho 585 looks much more promising with 25mm spacer and -6 110mm stem but it is a 585 and (as 565) are out of my price range and 565/585 appear to have different sizing/geometry if you look at the web site specs.

Unless my calculations are wrong, of course!
 

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acid_rider said:
Thank you. This does not "look" (pun intended) promising. If I add 15mm of spacer (to your 15mm) and then I flip the stem up to +6 then I get to ~92cm handlebar height. But 30mm of spacer with a flipped up stem is what I am trying to avoid. I already have 30mm of spacer on my Madone with +6 degree 110mm stem and it looks a bit odd. If Look 555 53cm will end up looking as odd then there is no point buying it. I think I need something with longer head tube like a Specialized Roubaix carbon, for example.
Unless my calculations are wrong, of course!
Tell me again why the floor to bar measurement is so important?
As stated before is drop from seat to bar not more useful ?
It's a # I have never concerned myself with, also noticed last night that if I put on winter 25mm tires (high profile) the # goes up by 5mm yet my position on the bike does not change at all.
I have not measured this but the headtube on Looks seems fairly tall compared to many modern bikes. Roubaix's are nice but even slower handling than the Look - and I consider the 555 slow.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
yes, the drop is more important

dreww said:
Tell me again why the floor to bar measurement is so important?
As stated before is drop from seat to bar not more useful ?
It's a # I have never concerned myself with, also noticed last night that if I put on winter 25mm tires (high profile) the # goes up by 5mm yet my position on the bike does not change at all.
I have not measured this but the headtube on Looks seems fairly tall compared to many modern bikes. Roubaix's are nice but even slower handling than the Look - and I consider the 555 slow.
ok, no objections, let us use your way.

I tolerate no more than ~40mm (perhaps 45mm max) saddle to top of handle-bar drop. My saddle height is ~72.2cm running along seat tube from centre of BB to top of saddle. So assuming this saddle height how many spacers would I need on a 53cm Look 555 to maintain 40mm drop? Use either 6,7,8 degree stem, ideally flipped down, 110mm length most likely but 100mm is ok too, nothing shorter.
 

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I measured again...

acid_rider said:
ok, no objections, let us use your way.
I tolerate no more than ~40mm (perhaps 45mm max) saddle to top of handle-bar drop. My saddle height is ~72.2cm running along seat tube from centre of BB to top of saddle. So assuming this saddle height how many spacers would I need on a 53cm Look 555 to maintain 40mm drop? Use either 6,7,8 degree stem, ideally flipped down, 110mm length most likely but 100mm is ok too, nothing shorter.
My wife is insisting I have another bike on the way as I keep disapearing into the basement with tape and level in hand (its usually the give away). Please tell her its not true!!
Seat is 72.8cm and drop is only 5.3cm with a 12cm stem w/ 6 degree rise
Sooo with 6mm less seat height and 10mm more spacer you will have your 4cm drop (including say 4mm less rise for 11cm stem over my 12cm)

25mm spacer and a 6degee stem is o.k right?
I would have gone 0 degree rise (looks waay better) and more stack height but my fav stem - Syntace F99 only comes in 6 degree rise :-(
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think yes

dreww said:
My wife is insisting I have another bike on the way as I keep disapearing into the basement with tape and level in hand (its usually the give away). Please tell her its not true!!
Seat is 72.8cm and drop is only 5.3cm with a 12cm stem w/ 6 degree rise
Sooo with 6mm less seat height and 10mm more spacer you will have your 4cm drop (including say 4mm less rise for 11cm stem over my 12cm)

25mm spacer and a 6degee stem is o.k right?
I would have gone 0 degree rise (looks waay better) and more stack height but my fav stem - Syntace F99 only comes in 6 degree rise :-(
yes, 25mm spacer and 6 degree stem is ok. Is it flipped up in +6 degree or down -6 ?

tell you wife I said hi! 8^)
 

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acid_rider said:
yes, 25mm spacer and 6 degree stem is ok. Is it flipped up in +6 degree or down -6 ?
Its flipped down. Up looks ridiculous.
Was just at my LBS and they have a 585 in nude carbon w/full Chorus carbon and Boras...
Maybe my wife has reason to be worried !!! - I wish
 

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Discussion Starter #17
excellent!

dreww said:
Its flipped down. Up looks ridiculous.
Was just at my LBS and they have a 585 in nude carbon w/full Chorus carbon and Boras...
Maybe my wife has reason to be worried !!! - I wish
thank you very much. So I will just ask the LBS to cut the fork so that there is room for 30mm of spacers under the stem since I can put up with 5-10mm of spacer on top of the stem and 20-25 below, in fact I think it looks good that way. Next I need to check if 555 head tube is same length as your 585 head tube, on Look web site.
 

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I have the 555

acid_rider said:
thank you very much. So I will just ask the LBS to cut the fork so that there is room for 30mm of spacers under the stem since I can put up with 5-10mm of spacer on top of the stem and 20-25 below, in fact I think it looks good that way. Next I need to check if 555 head tube is same length as your 585 head tube, on Look web site.
The 585 was just wishful thinking - 555 is plenty, plenty good for me
 

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Discussion Starter #19
that is even better!

dreww said:
The 585 was just wishful thinking - 555 is plenty, plenty good for me
555 (53cm) headtube is 5mm shorter than the 565/585 (Medium) head tube (Look web site) so if yours was a 585 this would have meant extra 5mm spacer in my case. Since you have a 555 then no change required to maintan the same saddle to bar drop. Excellent.

BTW how do you like your 555 on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 = top). How long have you had it and how many miles/km have you travelled on it? Would you buy the same frame/fork again, if given a chance? Is it very comfortable for distance riding (>= 4hours?) or is it more of a criterium weapon, fast, sharp but very stiff to ride for 4-5-6 hours?
 

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acid_rider said:
BTW how do you like your 555 on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 = top). How long have you had it and how many miles/km have you travelled on it? Would you buy the same frame/fork again, if given a chance? Is it very comfortable for distance riding (>= 4hours?) or is it more of a criterium weapon, fast, sharp but very stiff to ride for 4-5-6 hours?
Had the 555 for close to a year now, ex dealers demo. Ridden approx 5000kms (3000+ miles) I would give it a 9. Great all day comfort, very stable on fast downhills. Hit 50+ mph down Ceasers head in SC last spring - and with out a doubt it tracked better than anything else I have tried, for the money at least. Same week I tried a C'dale 6-13, Kestrel carbon and a Spec Tarmac. Have also descended this mtn on a C'dale cx bike and caad 7. Not a crit bike for sure but I'm happy to thrash around the crit course with the local Pro 1/2's and its sure not the bike that slows me down :)

More than stiff enough, though a friend of mine thrashed it up a very short steep hill - and felt flex but hes 190lbs and VERY strong (kinda guy who rides 53 x 12 all day...) he rides a six-13. My last bike was a C'dale caad 7 and it beat the snot out of me on long rides. Would I buy again, sure I'm very happy with it.
Have not ridden a Madone, I assume its fairly stiff being alloy? - I think you will be pleasently surprised with a Look, most guys buy again.
 
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