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Discussion Starter #1
Ok guys and Girls, :)
In your honest opinions which is generally considered a better ride, taking in account Value for Money as well as ride qualities, Alloy/Carbon or full Carbon frames?
I am looking at upgrading and with such a wide variety of each on the market these days it's not easy. :confused:
 

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specializedsworks said:
Ok guys and Girls, :)
In your honest opinions which is generally considered a better ride, taking in account Value for Money as well as ride qualities, Alloy/Carbon or full Carbon frames?
I am looking at upgrading and with such a wide variety of each on the market these days it's not easy. :confused:
There's no way to answer that question. Test ride some bikes. If you find one that fits and rides well, then buy it. What it's made of doesn't matter.
 

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there is an answer to your question

the answer is test ride a high grade steel bike; try a nice 853 bike on a long ride - this will answer the question of which rides better

a - alloy/ carbon
b - full carbon
c - none of the above
 

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collectorvelo said:
the answer is test ride a high grade steel bike; try a nice 853 bike on a long ride - this will answer the question of which rides better

a - alloy/ carbon
b - full carbon
c - none of the above
Ah, yes. See that solid engineering/science idea that design, type of construction, use of given material, and fit apparently doesn't apply to steel, because as the well informed apparently know, steel has some magical property that allows it to behave in a way that doesn't have to conform to good engineering or design principles. That's why any frame made from, say, Reynolds 853, has a god-like magical ride, no matter how bad the design or the maker who put it together. Honest.

I think this is the point where we're supposed to get on our knees and slap ourselves on our foreheads while chanting that timeless, yet stupidly hackneyed gem, "steal is real."

You'd get more truth out of a good flatal release than you would with the "steal is real" mantra.
 

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assume all things equal

there is no 'magic' frame design

frame geometry has been know, tested and studied for decades -- so there are no secrets

thus given a good builder; with standard frame geo for bike type - you can make general statements about materils

Steel will out last carbon-fiber
Aluminum will have less flex [given todays tubing standards]
And yes - steel frames in general transmit less road feedback and are more comfy
 

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collectorvelo said:
the answer is test ride a high grade steel bike; try a nice 853 bike on a long ride - this will answer the question of which rides better

a - alloy/ carbon
b - full carbon
c - none of the above
I have been considering a steel bike for some time. Would you recommend and particular 853 bike?

Thanks
 

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collectorvelo said:
there is no 'magic' frame design

frame geometry has been know, tested and studied for decades -- so there are no secrets

thus given a good builder; with standard frame geo for bike type - you can make general statements about materils

Steel will out last carbon-fiber
Aluminum will have less flex [given todays tubing standards]
And yes - steel frames in general transmit less road feedback and are more comfy
Please, then, show the data that says that a steel frame will outlast a CF frame, an Al frame or whatever. Show the data, then, that shows that steel transmits less road feedback. Show then how modern Al frames have less flex.

You have to be able to back up your claims.
 

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eminence grease
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alienator said:
Please, then, show the data that says that a steel frame will outlast a CF frame, an Al frame or whatever. Show the data, then, that shows that steel transmits less road feedback. Show then how modern Al frames have less flex.

You have to be able to back up your claims.
Here's your data wise-ass.

Steel: 156
CF: 139
Ti: 2,330,000,003
Aluminum: 7

:D :D
 

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I have all three

I have all three types of bikes. A 02 waterford, 04 Orbea Liege and a 05 Orbea Orca. Right now the Waterford is hanging in the rafters stripped of its components. I have not ridden it since the summer since I got the Orca. I am planning on selling it this summer when I hopefully can fetch top dollar for it. I
The Orca is my favorite "long ride in the hills" bike. I did 45 miles with about 3500 feet of climbing yesterday and was very happy on the bike. I probably put the most miles on this bike.
The Liege is a great bike for those shorter fast rides that only last about 2 hours. I have not really done any really long rides on it but since I am lucky enough to have the Orca I choose not to. I would imagine if I was in the position to have only one bike I would be doing long rides in the hills on the Leige and not know any better. It seems comfortable enough an seems to be the the stiffest of of all three frames .
I love bikes and biking. Having all these materials to choose from is great. Everyones needs are different and there is not one best material. You just have to take the plunge and get a bike that fits and is in your price range. Cycling is fun and riding and enjoying the nuaces of the different materials is a blast. Personally I can not see myself going back to steel. For me it was to flexy. Perhaps when I get older I will gravitate to another steel frame. Right now I really enjoy the surge of forward momentum of a stiffer frames when I step on the pedals.
 

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alienator said:
Please, then, show the data that says that a steel frame will outlast a CF frame, an Al frame or whatever. Show the data, then, that shows that steel transmits less road feedback. Show then how modern Al frames have less flex.

You have to be able to back up your claims.
You certainly live up to your name, but you might consider changing it to "thread-killer".Every time somebody has a opinion that you do not agree with, you demand that they somehow "prove" it with data that is not available to anyone and then you add sarcastic and patronizing,if not insulting remarks.I know this from experience in threads I have participated in recently.If you demand proof re-read your own posts and a pattern will emerge.It is not necessary to attack every opinion or generalization using the "prove it !" argument.It is possible to have an interesting thread continue with disagreements if the discourse remains civil,but threads full of acrimony usually die an early death.
 

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Try a sesarch

This topic was beat to death, with some serious gnashing of teeth, name calling, hand waving, posing, insinuation, and general fun had by all. The answer is that for some people, multi-material frames are fan-frickin'-tastic, and others won't give you the time of day for them. Proof abounds for both positions, and many others as well. IMO, it's mostly about design and execution, and not so much about material choice.
 

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Very Well Said

rollinrob said:
I have all three types of bikes. A 02 waterford, 04 Orbea Liege and a 05 Orbea Orca. Right now the Waterford is hanging in the rafters stripped of its components. I have not ridden it since the summer since I got the Orca. I am planning on selling it this summer when I hopefully can fetch top dollar for it. I
The Orca is my favorite "long ride in the hills" bike. I did 45 miles with about 3500 feet of climbing yesterday and was very happy on the bike. I probably put the most miles on this bike.
The Liege is a great bike for those shorter fast rides that only last about 2 hours. I have not really done any really long rides on it but since I am lucky enough to have the Orca I choose not to. I would imagine if I was in the position to have only one bike I would be doing long rides in the hills on the Leige and not know any better. It seems comfortable enough an seems to be the the stiffest of of all three frames .
I love bikes and biking. Having all these materials to choose from is great. Everyones needs are different and there is not one best material. You just have to take the plunge and get a bike that fits and is in your price range. Cycling is fun and riding and enjoying the nuaces of the different materials is a blast. Personally I can not see myself going back to steel. For me it was to flexy. Perhaps when I get older I will gravitate to another steel frame. Right now I really enjoy the surge of forward momentum of a stiffer frames when I step on the pedals.
I currently ride a Ti rd frame (compact geo), CF rd frame (traditional geo), A super stiff Alum mtb (rigid) and a FS MTB pig. All of them on the road and all about equal amounts. A Steel frame is in the Garage waiting for the parts off the CF. No two, brand the same. I have no clue which bike I like best. Each does somethings well and other things not so well.

I hope I never get pigeon toed into riding only one kind of frame. Be it material, kind, geo, brand or even size.

Hell I can only have one woman, I'll be damned if I will be so constrained when it comes to bikes.
 

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jordan said:
You certainly live up to your name, but you might consider changing it to "thread-killer".Every time somebody has a opinion that you do not agree with, you demand that they somehow "prove" it with data that is not available to anyone and then you add sarcastic and patronizing,if not insulting remarks.I know this from experience in threads I have participated in recently.If you demand proof re-read your own posts and a pattern will emerge.It is not necessary to attack every opinion or generalization using the "prove it !" argument.It is possible to have an interesting thread continue with disagreements if the discourse remains civil,but threads full of acrimony usually die an early death.
Then you read 'em all wrong. Usually in the posts you talk about, someone makes a claim that an OP or someone else might base a purchase decision on. It is a disservice to readers to post stuff as fact that is only opinion. Opinion is fine. The FACT is that frame performance is a function of design, construction, use of a given material, rider fit.....and you can throw a few others in, too.

If you like, you can accept everything that everyone says at face value.....or you can look for more than opinion or baseless claims and become a better informed customer, rider, whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks

Thanks for the advice, arguments, and discussions you have provided me over the last few hours.
 

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alienator said:
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Aluminum is 8.
You're as dumb as you look.

Only 600x aluminum is 8. The rest are 7. Add Scandium and it goes to 6. The overall average is 7 and that's a decent number for the average preterit/proletariat/pie-eater recreational cyclist. Just like I said.

Sheesh, dint you go to college or nothing?
 

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terry b said:
You're as dumb as you look.

Only 600x aluminum is 8. The rest are 7. Add Scandium and it goes to 6. The overall average is 7 and that's a decent number for the average preterit/proletariat/pie-eater recreational cyclist. Just like I said.

Sheesh, dint you go to college or nothing?
Well, I did go to college, but the semester they offered Unitless Magnitudes of Aluminum, I was undergoing liquid Hydrogen therapy for a really bad case of venereal warts, so I couldn't take the class. What I did, instead, for Aluminum, as well as for other potentially shiny elements(PSE) and compounds (PSC), was normalize the Unitless Magnitude so that for Aluminum--or whatever PSE or PSC was in question--the magnitude would always be unity. The nice thing about that practice is that normalization requires no real math since all you have to do is divide by whatever number you have so far so that you get unity. Also, if people disputed the accuracy of my Unitless Magnitude Normalization Function (UMNF), all I had to do was show them that they just weren't doing the Unitless Magnitude to Chosen Units Transform (UMCUT) correctly.

The heart of my technique was the fact that (UMCUT)^(-1)≡UMNF.
 
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