Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner

41 - 51 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I don't think you're missing much at all, and if love riding your bike then why get a new one? Do average riders really need 21 gears instead of 10 or 12 or 14? nah! but I see you upgraded yours to STI, personally, I would not have done that with your bike, but that's just me. The bike you have you can't get anything similar new today without ordering a custom-made bike and that will cost you a lot.

If you are still thinking about getting a new bike I would not buy an aluminum bike, they have limited life expectancy depending on how much you ride it, and you won't like the ride of it coming off of a fine bike like you have now. You will also experience a sort of deadish wood like feeling to carbon fiber compared to what you're used to, also with carbon fiber if you crash but don't see anything wrong with your bike you could have something wrong but the damage is most likely internally and may not be visible from the outside, so then you have two choices, take it back to the shop and they will send it back to the factory to be x-rayed at a cost to you, or take a risk and ride and hope there was no damage and it doesn't break all the way while you're on it. Also with CF frames, you have to make sure you know the correct torque values for everything you put on it if you don't get the value right and over-torque something you can crush the CF tubing which will lead to failure. I found it a bit disconcerting when I was able to press in a CF top tube with just my index finger and thumb.

If you like your steel bike ride comfort, and you know steel is very durable, then I would suggest you look at titanium instead, it's a long-term material like steel is, and it will actually ride a bit more comfortably than your old steel bike did! Yes, TI is expensive, but I know you won't be buying another bike for at least another 30 years, so figure out the cost per year of having your old bike with inflation factored in, and then do the same thing with the cost of TI. With TI you still will have the drawback of CF fork but with forks like Enve 2.0, True Temper extra-thick steerer tube version,
I found that my Titanium bike frame didn’t last forever, as I thought it would. It was a Litespeed that I put about 25K miles on over 11 years. A trusted mechanic did a short test ride at that point , after a repair on it and noticed it was “feeling its age.” It had literally developed metal fatigue. I tried a newer Litepeed, and he was right. Then I found out how much carbon frames had improved in the interum, so got Carbon instead this time. 4 years and 10k miles later, I still love my economical Cannondale carbon bike. Its about the same weight as my 2004 Litespeed, good enough for me, great frame feel and comfort.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
13,030 Posts
I found that my Titanium bike frame didn’t last forever, as I thought it would. It was a Litespeed that I put about 25K miles on over 11 years. A trusted mechanic did a short test ride at that point , after a repair on it and noticed it was “feeling its age.” It had literally developed metal fatigue. I tried a newer Litepeed, and he was right. Then I found out how much carbon frames had improved in the interum, so got Carbon instead this time. 4 years and 10k miles later, I still love my economical Cannondale carbon bike. Its about the same weight as my 2004 Litespeed, good enough for me, great frame feel and comfort.
Cannondale makes excellent carbon frames. Whereas Litespeed is at the budget end of Ti frames.

It would be unfair to say one material is better than another in all cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
I found that my Titanium bike frame didn’t last forever, as I thought it would. It was a Litespeed that I put about 25K miles on over 11 years. A trusted mechanic did a short test ride at that point , after a repair on it and noticed it was “feeling its age.” It had literally developed metal fatigue. I tried a newer Litepeed, and he was right.
Unless you compared your bike to an identical bike with an identical, but new frame, your comparison isn't valid. If the newer bike felt better, it's due to design or component differences, not "metal fatigue" in the old frame. Well-built Ti frames don't fatigue and those that aren't built properly typically fail at or near welds. Frankly, I'd have second thoughts about trusting that mechanic in the future.

I'm glad that you're enjoying your new bike; that's what it's all about!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
you could see it with the bare eye if has a crack or a cloudy look maybe. maybe one of these methods of checking for micro cracks from fatigue wouldnt be hard, like the dye: Metal Fatigue: What it is and How it is Detected | TECI

i cant find the fatigue limit of 6/4 ti vs chromoly

if you can hear it as it says in my link i think you could feel it. but for sure i bet all the other components were a much bigger influence on their agreeing, between salesman and customer, it was "feeling it's age", whatever that feeling would feel like.

as long as when it does fail from fatigue it doesnt do it in a catastrophic way. for starters I think frames very rarely fail catastrophically. even if the fatigue caused a tube to shear it isnt likely to fail in such a way as to result in injury with how a bike frame is designed. unlike a bike fork where if it fails youre going to be screwed. id replace the bars and stem for sure (and do that after even a couple years myself), and replace the fork! ill take the bike if you dont want it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
i cant find the fatigue limit of 6/4 ti vs chromoly
My understanding is that Ti and steel do not fatigue as long as they're aren't stressed beyond their yield point (the point at which they deform permanently, i.e., dent, crush, bend, etc.).

Ti must be welded in an inert-gas atmosphere to prevent oxygen/nitrogen embrittlement. When Ti frames crack at welds, embrittlement is often the culprit. A properly designed and welded Ti frame should not fatigue or crack.

Aluminum is subject to fatigue from sub-yield-point stresses, which is why Al frames have traditionally been made extra-stiff. That's also why Al frames have a reputation for being stiff; it's not that the material is stiffer (Al is ~1/3 the stiffness of steel and ~1/2 the stiffness of Ti), it's that they're designed to be stiff in order to counter fatigue and increase durability.

ill take the bike if you dont want it.
😁
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
522 Posts
My understanding is that Ti and steel do not fatigue as long as they're aren't stressed beyond their yield point (the point at which they deform permanently, i.e., dent, crush, bend, etc.).
fatigue limits will be lower than yield points. so you will be developing micro cracks but your frame has not bent.





Ti must be welded in an inert-gas atmosphere to prevent oxygen/nitrogen embrittlement. When Ti frames crack at welds, embrittlement is often the culprit. A properly designed and welded Ti frame should not fatigue or crack.
every stress on a material beyond it's fatigue limit is producing minute cracks. if the stress is below the fatigue limit, if the material has a limit, that stress has no lasting effect.


Aluminum is subject to fatigue from sub-yield-point stresses,
all materials are fatiguing if the stresses are greater than their fatigue limit. steel...ti as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Subjective question I know.

Just had a great discussion with a shop owner and he was telling me all about newer bikes. Slacker angles and wider tires that run on lower pressures.

I’m still riding a 1986 steel guercotti that has 25mm tires and wide handlebars. Full 9spd STI setup.

Tried googling newer road geometry but kinda came up empty.

Opinions welcomed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not surprised by all the comments unsupportive of the newer bikes and technology. Road bikers(and I'm one!) are among the most resistant to change groups I've seen. But as a rider that had an awesome 14 yr old carbon Look 585 and a number of steel bikes before, my new bike just blows them all away. Light, stiff, comfortable, safer. The disc brakes in itself is worth the upgrade, but I'm loving the decision to get di2 also. I have carbon rims with tubeless 30mm tires I run at 80psi, markedly different ride than my previous bike. Do I like it? I put 4000 mi on this season, where my usual was 2500 or so. I wanted to ride every day(I did 50 days in a row this summer) You sound like me, I started poking around asking questions for a season, but when I moved forward this spring I never looked back. Love my Factor 02, but many, many great choices out there. Go for it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
fatigue limits will be lower than yield points. so you will be developing micro cracks but your frame has not bent.
(y)

every stress on a material beyond it's fatigue limit is producing minute cracks. if the stress is below the fatigue limit, if the material has a limit, that stress has no lasting effect.
From what I've seen, steel and Ti have fatigue limits that are very close to their yield point. Aluminum has a fatigue limit that's considerably lower than it's yield point, hence the need for reducing flex in Al frames.

all materials are fatiguing if the stresses are greater than their fatigue limit. steel...ti as well.
Of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
I'm not surprised by all the comments unsupportive of the newer bikes and technology. Road bikers(and I'm one!) are among the most resistant to change groups I've seen.
I'm not actually unsupportive of new bike tech at all; in fact, I've typically ridden cutting-edge gear, especially back when I was racing. However, I carefully evaluate new tech to determine if it provides benefits for the type of riding I do and I won't buy new stuff just because it's new.

Funny you should mention the Look 585, as I have one too and it's been a great bike! Unfortunately, the threaded inserts in the BB have debonded, so I'm in the process of swapping the parts over to a new 2018 Cannondale SuperSix EVO frameset. I'll attempt to repair the Look and keep it as a backup frame.

I could have built the new frame with Campy 12-speed, but I can't get the gearing I want (13-29), so I'll stick with the 10-speed group I have. I could also have bought the disk brake version of the frameset (they're a lot easier to find), but disc brakes simply don't provide any real advantage for the type of road riding I do. If I rode in the rain a lot (I don't) or lived where there were long mountain descents where hand fatigue could be an issue, I'd probably feel differently. OTOH, all of my off-pavement bikes have disc brakes and I wouldn't be without them.

To me, electronic shifting seems like a waste of money, as in my experience with Di2 it doesn't perform as well as Campy mechanical for the way I ride.

I'm happy to share and explain my views, but people should make their own decisions based on their own needs and preferences. There is no one right way to go.
 
41 - 51 of 51 Posts
Top