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Discussion starter · #43 ·
the spyder said:
Fellows
TRASH those inferior wheels and go with either MAVIC SSC SL3 or the Rolf vigor:thumbsup:
Well, the front wheel is not really a problem - I have those hubs on 2 other sets of wheels and they've been fine. And given the loud nature of the rim, it can't be used with something more subtle. So, I need to put a reliable hub in the loud rim to make a pair - hence the idea.

The rest of the time - no more boutique wheels for me. From now on it's handbuilts based on DT hubs. As light, far less expensive and just as bombproof.
 
Sorry to hear about your injuries. That sucks. Hope you get better soon. To play Devil's advocate, I don't it's fair to blame AC for your injury since you may have caused the problem youself since you failed to follow the recall instructions. They specifically told you to take them to an LBS for repair @ no cost to you.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
farva said:
Sorry to hear about your injuries. That sucks. Hope you get better soon. To play Devil's advocate, I don't it's fair to blame AC for your injury since you may have caused the problem youself since you failed to follow the recall instructions. They specifically told you to take them to an LBS for repair @ no cost to you.
No, they offered a payment voucher in case the consumer did not feel comfortable in doing the repair. The instructions did not say "take it to an LBS." If they felt that strongly, they should've offered free shipping to have the wheels returned to them for the fix. The installation was dog simple - pull the cassette body, swap the cam plate, throw away the spring and put in a new one. Not tuning a Ferrari afterall. And, I got many hundreds of miles on that wheel before it failed. Doesn't seem real likely that I did something wrong that managed to limp along for 15 or 20 rides, does it?

As far as blame goes, well sure - it could be my fault. I doubt it, because I trust my wrenching skills but who knows. I certainly trust myself more than any 16 year old LBS employee. But I won't be the tiniest bit surprised if they blame it on me, whether it's my fault or not.

However, all that's sort of besides the point. AC has an ongoing history of developing, selling and then recalling products. My sad tale of woe is not the first depicting a failed rear hub that's been posted on this forum. It is the first that involved injuries and a broken helmet that I can recall though. Others have been lucky, I wasn't.
 
terry b said:
No, they offered a payment voucher in case the consumer did not feel comfortable in doing the repair. The instructions did not say "take it to an LBS." If they felt that strongly, they should've offered free shipping to have the wheels returned to them for the fix. The installation was dog simple - pull the cassette body, swap the cam plate, throw away the spring and put in a new one. Not tuning a Ferrari afterall. And, I got many hundreds of miles on that wheel before it failed. Doesn't seem real likely that I did something wrong that managed to limp along for 15 or 20 rides, does it?

As far as blame goes, well sure - it could be my fault. I doubt it, because I trust my wrenching skills but who knows. I certainly trust myself more than any 16 year old LBS employee. But I won't be the tiniest bit surprised if they blame it on me, whether it's my fault or not.

However, all that's sort of besides the point. AC has an ongoing history of developing, selling and then recalling products. My sad tale of woe is not the first depicting a failed rear hub that's been posted on this forum. It is the first that involved injuries and a broken helmet that I can recall though. Others have been lucky, I wasn't.
Hmmm...that's weird. I have the same wheels & got the parts/recall instructions from AC. Mine said to take it to an LBS. This was almost 1.5 - 2 years ago, but I do remember them specifically calling for LBS repair, as I also do all my own wrenching & decided to let the LBS do it instead per their instructions. Maybe they revised it since then. Anyway, I guess the bottom line is ride w/whatever gives you piece of mind. I own 2 pairs of AC wheels & have never had any problems with them. I'm particularly pyshced on the CR-420's. Best of luck with your recovery.
 
terry b said:
No, they offered a payment voucher in case the consumer did not feel comfortable in doing the repair. The instructions did not say "take it to an LBS." If they felt that strongly, they should've offered free shipping to have the wheels returned to them for the fix. The installation was dog simple - pull the cassette body, swap the cam plate, throw away the spring and put in a new one. Not tuning a Ferrari afterall. And, I got many hundreds of miles on that wheel before it failed. Doesn't seem real likely that I did something wrong that managed to limp along for 15 or 20 rides, does it?

As far as blame goes, well sure - it could be my fault. I doubt it, because I trust my wrenching skills but who knows. I certainly trust myself more than any 16 year old LBS employee. But I won't be the tiniest bit surprised if they blame it on me, whether it's my fault or not.

However, all that's sort of besides the point. AC has an ongoing history of developing, selling and then recalling products. My sad tale of woe is not the first depicting a failed rear hub that's been posted on this forum. It is the first that involved injuries and a broken helmet that I can recall though. Others have been lucky, I wasn't.
Jeez, wind a guy up and he won't shut up. You're spot on about AC's history. I dunno iffin' they have a QC problem where ever their stuff is made, iffin' they have a design problem, or what. Maybe they need to charge a bit more so they can put a bit more thought and effort into the products. I think a good first step would be to divert 3/4 of the money they spend on their decals to hardware, instead.

Hopefully AC will be stand up Joe's about this.
 
Sorry to hear about the failures you guys have had. I don't understand how AC can keep putting out the poor product. I hate to read all the bad stuff, not just here, about AC rear hubs because I've been on them a long time now; one set for 5 years, the other for 3, without any problems.

Hey, if you guys are going to be tossing those things in the trash bin. . . I could use them for spare parts.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
farva said:
Hmmm...that's weird. I have the same wheels & got the parts/recall instructions from AC. Mine said to take it to an LBS. This was almost 1.5 - 2 years ago, but I do remember them specifically calling for LBS repair, as I also do all my own wrenching & decided to let the LBS do it instead per their instructions. Maybe they revised it since then. Anyway, I guess the bottom line is ride w/whatever gives you piece of mind. I own 2 pairs of AC wheels & have never had any problems with them. I'm particularly pyshced on the CR-420's. Best of luck with your recovery.
This recall was last year, perhaps we're not talking about the same one. Don't know if you saw it, but check out elindemann's thread about 3 up from here. Same recall, repaired at LBS, his hub broke too.

No guarantees I guess.
 
Glad you're O.K.

Gald you came out of the crash with injuries that will heal. After reading all the posts in this thread, I want to offer the following advice. Have you contacted the CPSC in Wash. DC? The CPSC may have something on file, if not they make take your info and check it out with the folks at AC. Couldn't hurt to try this route, at the very least you may save other consumers from suffering the same fate as you did. It may have been a design flaw with the hubs, or quality control issue. I don't know how big a company AC is, but when a government agency starts asking questions they usually fess up. Any way glad you'll be able to ride again.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Jeff G said:
Gald you came out of the crash with injuries that will heal. After reading all the posts in this thread, I want to offer the following advice. Have you contacted the CPSC in Wash. DC? The CPSC may have something on file, if not they make take your info and check it out with the folks at AC. Couldn't hurt to try this route, at the very least you may save other consumers from suffering the same fate as you did. It may have been a design flaw with the hubs, or quality control issue. I don't know how big a company AC is, but when a government agency starts asking questions they usually fess up. Any way glad you'll be able to ride again.

This mess was the result of an official CPSC recall, last spring. But, taking them to task on the failure of my "upgraded" wheel is great advice. I'll check into it.
 
I called AC, they said wheel was shipped out. My bike shop said the wheel is in, doesn't look like there was any charge(good since they didn't call to tell me there was). Anyway AC provided a note that stated there was "extenuating circumstances" and that the problem resulted from improper installation of the wheel on the bike. They provided "explicit directions o/w the problem will happen again" Not sure what the instructions state or what the problem was. The wheel was installed by my LBS--shouldn't be that complicated? will update when I get the wheel with AC's directions....
 
The "banned" list

terry b said:
No, they offered a payment voucher in case the consumer did not feel comfortable in doing the repair. The instructions did not say "take it to an LBS." If they felt that strongly, they should've offered free shipping to have the wheels returned to them for the fix. The installation was dog simple - pull the cassette body, swap the cam plate, throw away the spring and put in a new one. Not tuning a Ferrari afterall. And, I got many hundreds of miles on that wheel before it failed. Doesn't seem real likely that I did something wrong that managed to limp along for 15 or 20 rides, does it?

As far as blame goes, well sure - it could be my fault. I doubt it, because I trust my wrenching skills but who knows. I certainly trust myself more than any 16 year old LBS employee. But I won't be the tiniest bit surprised if they blame it on me, whether it's my fault or not.

However, all that's sort of besides the point. AC has an ongoing history of developing, selling and then recalling products. My sad tale of woe is not the first depicting a failed rear hub that's been posted on this forum. It is the first that involved injuries and a broken helmet that I can recall though. Others have been lucky, I wasn't.
Yeah, AC has a history of "under-engineering". They are on my personal list of banned companies who have a history of bad quality, poor manufacturing tolerances, spotty warranty and problems in general. This list includes: American Classic, Ritchey, Bontrager, and Zipp. This is not just wheels either, I won't buy any other components from these companies either.

If I was sending the wheel back to AC, I would not even admit to having changed the parts in the recall myself. That is just opening up a loophole for them to wriggle out of making good on their crap product. I'm sure you did it correctly if the wheel was fine for 15+ rides, and in the big picture the odds of you doing it properly are much higher than the average LBS mechanic.
 
Eric_H said:
Yeah, AC has a history of "under-engineering". They are on my personal list of banned companies who have a history of bad quality, poor manufacturing tolerances, spotty warranty and problems in general. This list includes: American Classic, Ritchey, Bontrager, and Zipp. This is not just wheels either, I won't buy any other components from these companies either.

If I was sending the wheel back to AC, I would not even admit to having changed the parts in the recall myself. That is just opening up a loophole for them to wriggle out of making good on their crap product. I'm sure you did it correctly if the wheel was fine for 15+ rides, and in the big picture the odds of you doing it properly are much higher than the average LBS mechanic.
Why is it LBS wrenches get such short shrift in the US? Do shops pay so badly that wrenches don't stay past 21?
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
ultimobici said:
Why is it LBS wrenches get such short shrift in the US? Do shops pay so badly that wrenches don't stay past 21?
I'm sure there are good ones, it's just that I've never found one. And I'm sure there are plenty beyond 16, but not many are going to spend a life in penury just so they can do work they enjoy.

I think it's like all low-paying jobs - many start because they love it, few stay once adulthood sinks in, unless they're a partner in the business. And since it's often a low paying starter job, you get a lot of kids. And kids don't often know what they're doing.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
elindemann said:
I called AC, they said wheel was shipped out. My bike shop said the wheel is in, doesn't look like there was any charge(good since they didn't call to tell me there was). Anyway AC provided a note that stated there was "extenuating circumstances" and that the problem resulted from improper installation of the wheel on the bike. They provided "explicit directions o/w the problem will happen again" Not sure what the instructions state or what the problem was. The wheel was installed by my LBS--shouldn't be that complicated? will update when I get the wheel with AC's directions....

How it was installed on the bike? How do you improperly install a wheel on a bike? It will be interesting to see what the instructions say.

When did you send yours in? Mine has been out about 4 weeks.
 
Discussion starter · #57 ·
Just got off the phone after talking to AC and as I predicted, the crash was my fault - I did the upgrade installation improperly. No explanation as to how the wheel worked for 500 miles before failing.

To their credit the wheel has been repaired and is on its way back to me.

From a customer service standpoint, very, very unpleasant experience. For both sides, no doubt.

As an FYI to the community - they were not very happy about me posting this in the first place - they read the boards. And that was made very clear to me, wrapped in platitudes about "America being a free place and exercising one's opinion." They also did not like my comments about their wheels being under-engineered, under-designed and prone to failure as evidenced by a history of posts on this very forum. No answer for that either.

Which brings us to the notion of recalls. Here we have my ability to read and follow instructions vs. the local wrench at the LBS. As I mentioned above, there isn't a single LBS wrench within 500 miles of me that I would trust - the market is just that bad. I guess if something has the potential to break, and thus threaten one's life, perhaps consumer-executed recalls should not be allowed. While I'm pretty confident in my skills, I make mistakes too. As do LBS wrenches. Seems to me that recalls should be that - send it back to the MFGR for it to be done properly or ride it at your own peril. No halfway solutions.

There you have it, a sad tale of woe of my half-assed mechanical skills intesecting with a recalled product. :D Live and learn.
 
terry b said:
Just got off the phone after talking to AC and as I predicted, the crash was my fault - I did the upgrade installation improperly. No explanation as to how the wheel worked for 500 miles before failing.

To their credit the wheel has been repaired and is on its way back to me.

From a customer service standpoint, very, very unpleasant experience. For both sides, no doubt.

As an FYI to the community - they were not very happy about me posting this in the first place - they read the boards. And that was made very clear to me, wrapped in platitudes about "America being a free place and exercising one's opinion." They also did not like my comments about their wheels being under-engineered, under-designed and prone to failure as evidenced by a history of posts on this very forum. No answer for that either.

Which brings us to the notion of recalls. Here we have my ability to read and follow instructions vs. the local wrench at the LBS. As I mentioned above, there isn't a single LBS wrench within 500 miles of me that I would trust - the market is just that bad. I guess if something has the potential to break, and thus threaten one's life, perhaps consumer-executed recalls should not be allowed. While I'm pretty confident in my skills, I make mistakes too. As do LBS wrenches. Seems to me that recalls should be that - send it back to the MFGR for it to be done properly or ride it at your own peril. No halfway solutions.

There you have it, a sad tale of woe of my half-assed mechanical skills intesecting with a recalled product. :D Live and learn.
Well, if Bill Shook and his minions don't like what they read, then they ought to make a better product. Full stop. If Bill Shook and his designers and engineers are worried about the customer doing the repair on a flawed product, then they ought to require those products be sent back to the factory. Full stop. Doing anything less--as they are for you, TerryB--is copping out on their responsibilities to the customer and to safety. Full stop.

Mr. Shook and American Classic, if what has been reported is your attitude, then you have serious issues with your company. If you make a flawed product--as you admittedly did with some of the hubs on your wheels--and you say the customer can repair it, but then you say the customer did it wrong, then you need to accept responsibility since you SHOULD have required said product be sent back to you for repair. If you don't get those two ideas, then customers should not buy from your company. Full stop.
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
It was an interesting conversation. The bone of contention was not my incompetance causing my wreck, but rather what I had to say about it here on the board. Anyone can read through this thread - I allowed it might be my fault and I accepted that on the phone. But at least one other person had their hub fail and that repair was done at the LBS. And then there's Len's axle, and the others that chimed in with their own stories. And I'm also sure that there are millions of satisified customers out there who never make a peep.

My original post was not about how bad AC was but rather warning people with upgraded hubs that they might not want to be too complacent. And I stand by that warning. The fact that I messed it up (along with one other LBS) should indicate that gee, maybe things are not all wonderful with how this was handled. I told the AC rep I'd come on here and admit my culpability. And I have. But I also told them that if someone with my skills can't do the upgrade then the wheels should've been recalled and the repair should've been done in house. It's not like LBS people are infallible either. Perhaps it's not unlike asking 1972 Pinto owners to swap their gas tanks.

As I said in my very first paragraph, I'd steered clear of AC rear wheels for years based on the feedback I'd received from this community. People should go and read the reviews here on RBR. Among the 21 people who bothered to enter them, plenty of 5/5s and at least 2 or 3 mentions of rear hubs breaking, noises, bearings, truing problems, etc. I finally decided to take a chance, and I made a mistake. Not one that I'm going to make again. While I appreciate their repair of that wheel, I don't think I can trust it again. Too much personal damage and bad vibes.
 
Yup, I'm hip to what yer sayin'. Even the best company can put out a product that fails and needs recall. However if Bill Shook, American Classic, and the lads are going to allow a repair on a known product issue to be done outside AC's facilities, then they either have to accept some responsibility for said repairs or admit that customer service is not as important for them as they'd like people to think it is.

Product flaws can be fixed, but sytemic flaws--like a company's flawed attitude--can be terminal.
 
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