Agreed, CF is great stuff but not everyone wants or can afford it. Lets see what the future holds for an all alloy Athena group. If it succeeds in the market then maybe someone will get that CF isn't all that.Fai Mao said:Except and this is a big disagreement with the writer of that article; Campy does not need to necessarily ditch the retro aspect of their business. In fact they need to pay a little more attention to it. I don't feel that it would hurt Campy to produce a 7 or 8 speed group; a NR with a cassette. There are lots of riders in the late 40's on up who have very little need or desire to replace their entire drive train with 10 or 11 speeds but do not really want to ride a cheap Shi(t)mano sub Tiagra hub.
The Japanese made wonderful cars in the early years but couldn't market them until they started their American design studios. Americans aren't Europeans and just don't want the same thing. Give us what we want and we'll buy it.Fai Mao said:I do agree that marketing is Campy's weird point. They have produced great products that at times they simply didn't market well. Case in point the flatbar shifters. I believe that if Campy had marketed those as a group with a group name they'd have sold well enough to still be made.
It's hard for me to distinguish Campagnolo International's problems versus Campagnolo USA's problems. Take the US pricing white elephant for example. To me, it is merely a Campy USA problem, not a Campy Intl problem. I am happy to buy from abroad, because:metanoize said:An Open Letter to Campagnolo - Embrocation Cycling Journal
I dunno... in a good, stable market, there's seemingly nothing wrong with being niche.pacificaslim said:Good point. It's totally possible that they are satisfied with the size and profitability of their company and can carry on status quo indefinitely. I know it's some sort of sin in american business to not try to grow every freakin' business to the size and dominance of walmart. But this is not as common of a desire in other countries.
Not saying that your general point is wrong, but just as a heads-up, Audi/VW didn't buy Lamborghini 'til the late '90s, and Fiat took a 50% stake in Ferrari back in 1969. Obviously well before hybrids were ever an issue.orange_julius said:Compared with the Ferrari and Lamborghini comparison, I think that one key issue the car industry is facing is the very high cost of developing significantly different new technology, such as hybrids. That's why Ferrari and Lambo cannot survive on their own, and they have to have a large-revenue outfit like Fiat and VW/Audi to shore up the cost effectiveness of the technology investments.
I think that's probably an accurate assessment. And maybe in the short term, 'milking it in the US' will help Campy's bottom line.orange_julius said:I think that right now Campy USA/NA is banking on a zero-growth strategy. Or maybe even NEGATIVE revenue growth but positive profit growth. At least I hope that they are, given the way they have set their pricing policy. Whether this is good or bad for Campy Intl remains to be seen. This kind of strategy is far from unique, just look at Harley-Davidson. Even with falling revenue, their profit has increased steadily.
I see what you are saying about pricing laws. But you should distinguish between Campy Intl, Campy NA, and Campy Europe (if there is such a thing). If Campy Intl feels that they need to make more money, they can increase their wholesale price. That's how they make money anyway.badge118 said:I THINK the reason that they have the Euro blow outs is not that they sell it out the back door locally but the Law. The EU has VERY strick price fixing laws. Either Campy or Campy USA actually has the US distributors sign a contract with a minimum price (according to the distributor my local shop spoke to recently when they decided to order from over seas for their personal rides), this is strictly illegal in Europe so the pricing is much more effected by the market itself.
So I have my Campy Chorus 11 spd for WELL under a grand cause I bought from Europe and they offered free shipping. Whats funny (or sad depending on your view) is that there were even steeper discounts on Record and Super record, but for me Chorus has always been fine so I didn't see a need to spend more cash.
So it may be they don't care about the US market. It may also be that they are looking at the US market as a place to make up for some of they cash they lose in Europe.
I do know that if I could not order from Europe, when I did swap out my Chorus 10spd for something new, it would have been SRAM and not Campy that I bought.
Sorry but this was bothering me. Ferrari is turning profits for Fiat who is struggling. Even with all of Ferrari's development cost they turn healthy profits. This is because most of the technological advanced are done at the track. Be it in F1, GT2, their challenge car series, or the FXX and 599XX programs. These are are sponsored by companies or individual with way too much money. Thats why Ferrari and Porsche are so great because theres produces come from what they learn in a race environment, much like what Campy seem to do.orange_julius said:Compared with the Ferrari and Lamborghini comparison, I think that one key issue the car industry is facing is the very high cost of developing significantly different new technology, such as hybrids. That's why Ferrari and Lambo cannot survive on their own, and they have to have a large-revenue outfit like Fiat and VW/Audi to shore up the cost effectiveness of the technology investments.
I could see them selling off Lambo, Bugatti, and maybe Bentley. The way it stand, Lambo only has 2 models with only one of them offering something the Audi/VW don't have. The Lambo Murciélago is the only thing that Audi/VW aren't replicating in one of their auto lines. And even then that car is due to be replace in the next year or so.SystemShock said:You think Audi/VW will sell Lambo?
Wonder who the potential takers would be. :idea:
Exactly, one only needs to look at Harely Davidson (circa 1980, 1981 with the AMF buyout), and GM or Toyota USA for that matter to realize that sometimes companies should be happy with ensuring they do what they do best (what got them to that point) rather than trying to conquer the world. I'd prefer to run a smaller, leaner, profitable company than an overgrown gorilla that is a slave to creditors, shareholders, etc.pacificaslim said:Good point. It's totally possible that they are satisfied with the size and profitability of their company and can carry on status quo indefinitely. I know it's some sort of sin in american business to not try to grow every freakin' business to the size and dominance of walmart. But this is not as common of a desire in other countries.