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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Jaksche's doctor: drug use common

cyclingnews.com said:
German doctor Kurt Moosburger, who has looked after Jörg Jaksche (among others) for the past two years, has told dpa that he believes that performance enhancing drugs are "indispensable" for high level cycling

In a frank interview, Moosburger pointed to the average speeds of modern professional races, especially hard tours. "The average in last year's Tour was 41 kilometres per hour - that is incredible. You can do a hard Alpine stage without doping. But after that, the muscles are exhausted. You need - depending on your training conditions - up to three days in order to regenerate."

To help recover, testosterone and human growth hormone can be used. "Both are made by the body and are therefore natural substances," he said. "They help to build muscle as well as in muscle recovery."

Dr Moosburger explained how it was done. "You put a standard testosterone patch that is used for male hormone replacement therapy on your scrotum and leave it there for about six hours. The small dose is not sufficient to produce a positive urine result in the doping test, but the body actually recovers faster."

Dr Moosburger went onto explain that, "The supply of oxygen to the blood decides what the body is capable of in terms of fat- and carbohydrate metabolism. This capacity is mostly genetically determined.The muscles of athletes who are able to reach the top level of sport can carry about 60 millilitres per kilo per minute in an untrained condition. That of an average person is only about 40 millilitres per kilo. In order to be able to keep up with the world's best, it must be 85 to 90 millilitres.

EPO helps oxygen carrying capacity, and has long been the performance enhancing drug of choice in endurance sports. "It enables you to hold the haematocrit of the blood in the upper level of what's allowed for the whole season. Before the EPO test, for example, athletes injected 4000 units three times per week. Now they inject a small dose almost daily."

Finally, in the opinion of Dr Moosburger, blood doping via transfusion would give an athlete a five percent boost for two to three weeks. "And therefore can last for a grand tour."
 

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that seconds fuentes claim...

...that riding a grand tour is unhealthy, and the "treatments" provided are really recovery enhancing not performance enhancing (although recovering quicker enhances performance)...
interesting in that the fuentes charges are for endangering health and he is turning that on its head :rolleyes:
 

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AJL said:
Jaksche's doctor: drug use common
The sad fact is that riders will do anything they can to gain an "edge" over their competitors, even if it's illegal.

Using testosterone patches, IMO, is illegal. It's doping. I don't care if you don't test positive, it's still cheating.

There should be two categories of riders. One that's completely clean, the other that's doped up to the gills. They shouldn't be allowed to inter-compete.
 

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vonteity said:
The sad fact is that riders will do anything they can to gain an "edge" over their competitors, even if it's illegal.

Using testosterone patches, IMO, is illegal. It's doping. I don't care if you don't test positive, it's still cheating.

There should be two categories of riders. One that's completely clean, the other that's doped up to the gills. They shouldn't be allowed to inter-compete.

R U serious........???
how would you tell them apart? they all "test" clean........:confused5:

in an earlier post:

"Handicaps maybe?.......everybody just fesses up and gets points assigned for doping....different dope gets different points (rEPO = 3, HGH = 2, and like that)

beer = 10

too many beerz and you just get off the bike and join the fans........:D:D

b0nk

actually, just joking, cheaters will always find a way to cheat any system...so I vote for a risk / reward system that makes it not worth the risk .... i like the 4 yr ban idea, that's a career ender right there ....."
 

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terzo rene said:
Damn, those riders are tough. Putting a patch on your scrotum? On is easy, but getting that adhesive patch off isn't going to be fun.
That's nothing. Didn't Gaumont talk about ridings taking sandpaper to their nuts and 'taint to create sores so that they could claim the corticosteroids showing up in a test were from topical corticosteroid creams rather than the injections of Kenacort or similar drugs?
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm just getting a feeling that this investigation is going to domino out with more doctors singing and more riders being named. It's interesting to hear exactly how easily the riders can beat the tests. The UCI is only going to find riders who screw up on the routine or get greedy and push their doc for more (which I'm guessing is what Heras did).


Man, sandpapering your own scrotum (shiver) - no thanks!
 

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AJL said:
The UCI is only going to find riders who screw up on the routine or get greedy and push their doc for more (which I'm guessing is what Heras did).
I think Heras got caught out by the shift toward the "positive" isoforms of EPO that may occur following prolonged hard efforts. Those triathletes showed that their postiive EPO tests were false positives due to this effect.

I suspect Heras was microdosing EPO daily, but that grueling 3rd week of the Vuelta in the mountains made is body also produce more of the "positive" isoforms, which in combination with what was there from the EPO injections tripped a positive.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I think Heras got caught out by the shift toward the "positive" isoforms of EPO that may occur following prolonged hard efforts. Those triathletes showed that their postiive EPO tests were false positives due to this effect.

I suspect Heras was microdosing EPO daily, but that grueling 3rd week of the Vuelta in the mountains made is body also produce more of the "positive" isoforms, which in combination with what was there from the EPO injections tripped a positive.
...so in other words, because of the effort, the pH of his naturally produced EPO shifted "up" in the gel lane and the shaded areas outside the "natural" area became more predominant, resulting in a positive interpretation?

...i am surprised that someone has not come up with a masking substance to "neutralize" the pH of the rEPO...guess that would diminish the rEPO's ability to increase the hematocrit levels ???

b0nk
 
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