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fornaca68 said:
Fofonov at Credit Agricole -- didn't he attempt a solo flyer in the final 2 km today? If so, better to burn out . . than to fade away.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/jul08/jul28news

The vast majority are doped to one degree or another.

But as Eddy said..."There is doping and then there is doping"

Leave me in peace; evrybody takes dope" Jacques Anquetil

As long as millions are to be made in pro sport doping cannot stop....it's that simple. We delude ourselves to think otherwise.
 

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I would not be surprised if Fofonov is "innocent." He probably really did buy some type of herbal remedy or such and it had a banned stimulant in it. Riders get caught for these chickencrap little things, even as riders like Schumacher and the whole CSC team are doped to the eyeballs with the real deal.
 

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Under ACrookedSky said:
I would not be surprised if Fofonov is "innocent." He probably really did buy some type of herbal remedy or such and it had a banned stimulant in it. Riders get caught for these chickencrap little things, even as riders like Schumacher and the whole CSC team are doped to the eyeballs with the real deal.
Perfect. Being caught shows you're innocent; not being caught proves you're guilty.
 

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ti-triodes said:
If you think about it, this seems to be the way things are going.
Are going? Did you miss last year's Tour? Rasmussen was booted without ever having a positive test. Okay, he lied and broke the rules, so he deserves to be punishment, and afterwards he proved himself to be enough of an ass that I don't feel sorry for him, but that doesn't change the fact that the yellow jersey rider was forced out of the Tour and suspended for two years for an infraction only of team rules. Was he doped? It wouldn't surprise me. Was their any valid evidence of him doping, apart from someone saying, "One time, he gave me some of his dope. To, ah, hold. No, instead of reporting it to the police or to WADA or to L'Equipe, I, ah, disposed of it."? NO.

Basically, the rule is, if ASO doesn't like you, you're out. I think part of the reason someone leaks test results to L'Equipe is to make sure they become public, so ASO can't play favorites.
 

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ti-triodes said:
If you think about it, this seems to be the way things are going.
:thumbsup: Some people have a lack of critical thinking skills.

Fofonov was busted for a substance was put on the banned list in the last two years. It is easy to detect. It is also an ingredient in over the counter medications. Only an idiot would use this stuff on purpose.

Meanwhile Schumacher appears to have grown a third lung in the off season and the whole CSC team is riding over the cols like Postal.
 

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somdoosh said:
Are going? Did you miss last year's Tour? Rasmussen was booted without ever having a positive test. Okay, he lied and broke the rules, so he deserves to be punishment, and afterwards he proved himself to be enough of an ass that I don't feel sorry for him, but that doesn't change the fact that the yellow jersey rider was forced out of the Tour and suspended for two years for an infraction only of team rules.
Rasmussen did not just lie to his team, he lied to the OOC dope testing program. That is why he was pressured out of the race.

somdoosh said:
Basically, the rule is, if ASO doesn't like you, you're out. I think part of the reason someone leaks test results to L'Equipe is to make sure they become public, so ASO can't play favorites.
It helps prevent riders from producing backdated TUEs and a bundle of cash make things go away.
 

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somdoosh said:
but that doesn't change the fact that the yellow jersey rider was forced out of the Tour and suspended for two years for an infraction only of team rules.
Not exactly.

UCI rules at the time stated that if a rider missed an OCC in the 6 weeks prior to a Grand Tour then he was not allowed to participate in the GT. Rass missed 4 OCC in the weeks leading up to the Tour. The UCI hid this and did not tell the ASO. It was not made public until the Fed announced Rass would not be considered for the Olympic team because of his actions. This all came out right at the start to the tour....well timed for maximum embarrassment.

Rassmusen broke UCI rules. Not surprisingly the UCI played the political game instead of doing what was best for the sport.
 

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bigpinkt said:
Not exactly.

UCI rules at the time stated that if a rider missed an OCC in the 6 weeks prior to a Grand Tour then he was not allowed to participate in the GT. Rass missed 4 OCC in the weeks leading up to the Tour. The UCI hid this and did not tell the ASO. It was not made public until the Fed announced Rass would not be considered for the Olympic team because of his actions. This all came out right at the start to the tour....well timed for maximum embarrassment.
Oh. The version I'd heard was that he'd told UCI he'd be in Mexico on certain dates, Team Rabobank was tested (in Europe) on some of those dates, and he was excused since he was on another Continent. Then someone mentions he saw Rasmussen in Italy when he was supposed to be in Mexico, and after a few more lies he finally fessed up and said he wasn't in Mexico due to conflict with his Mexican wife (there's at least a grain of truth to that, since her family said he wasn't in Mexico when he was seen in Italy. If it was my spouse on the hook I at least would have provided the alibi).

But if what you say is true, there is still no justification for any punishment beyond kicking him out of the tour, and maybe off his team. To punish him for the UCI's wrong action would be like suspending Manu Ginobili because Tim Donaghy officiated a game the Spurs won.

I realize that the UCI can't really sanction itself, but ingenious backdoor punishments for riders to take the pressure off UCI isn't the solution.
 

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somdoosh said:
(there's at least a grain of truth to that, since her family said he wasn't in Mexico when he was seen in Italy. If it was my spouse on the hook I at least would have provided the alibi).
IIRC, Rass' Mexican BIL did say he was seen in Mexico in June, at least at first.

Rabobank always knew where he was, though. Hell, I think he and Menchov trained together during part of the time in question.
 

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somdoosh said:
Oh. The version I'd heard was that he'd told UCI he'd be in Mexico on certain dates, Team Rabobank was tested (in Europe) on some of those dates, and he was excused since he was on another Continent.
Team Rabobank was not tested, OCC are individual test not team based

somdoosh said:
Then someone mentions he saw Rasmussen in Italy when he was supposed to be in Mexico, and after a few more lies he finally fessed up and said he wasn't in Mexico due to conflict with his Mexican wife (there's at least a grain of truth to that, since her family said he wasn't in Mexico when he was seen in Italy. If it was my spouse on the hook I at least would have provided the alibi).
When news came out that he had missed 4 OCC Rass tried the "I was in Mexico" lie. It seemed to keep the ASO at bay until Davide Cassini said he saw Rass training in the Dolomites confirmed he was was not telling the truth.

somdoosh said:
But if what you say is true, there is still no justification for any punishment beyond kicking him out of the tour, and maybe off his team.
Actually there is. The rules at the time state that 2 missed OCC equal a positive. Also he had intentionally lied on his whereabouts form, not just once but for a month. Automatic 2 year suspension, which is what his Fed (Monaco) gave him.
 
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