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Cheese is my copilot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking to buy an entry level drum kit for my 10yo. My major concern is cost, but I'm also thinking about resale value in case this doesn't work out. I've got a local line on a Ludwig Rocker set that's about 5 years old. Anyone got an opinion on this? Comes with all the stuff in the photos below. Asking price is $550. Any help would be appreciated. I'm clueless.



 

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jaded bitter joy crusher
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$550 looks very plausible for what's in the picture if the equipment is in decent shape. What I'm not sure about is the cymbals look as though they may be dented. Zildjians are great cymbals generally, but dented cymbals lose their value. If it's for a kid, I'd focus on how things sound. Do the cymbals have a clean ringing sound, or are they muddy.
 

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Knives, Guns, and Booze
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Cymbals and mounting hardware/stands pretty much make up about 80% of the cost of a drum set, just for your information. You should be able to get ahold of a basic used set with cymbals and mounting hardware/stands for under $500.00, a “complete” set, that is.
 

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Rollin' Stones
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Ludwig makes nice stuff. The textured cymbals are nice with that kit. If it were me, I'd want another cymbal and stand for the money. It's a nice starter set, better than what I had. I haven't researched the set, but, I'd probably go for it, as it's a beginner set.
 

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jaded bitter joy crusher
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Leopold Porkstacker said:
Cymbals and mounting hardware/stands pretty much make up about 80% of the cost of a drum set, just for your information. You should be able to get ahold of a basic used set with cymbals and mounting hardware/stands for under $500.00, a “complete” set, that is.
I don't know. I've been shopping, and although I am looking for something significantly higher-end, I've been keeping up with CL in my area and $600-700 for an entry-level set at Ludwig-type quality including basic cymbals (ride, crash, and hats) is about the going rate.
 

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Opus was just napping
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Fredke said:
$550 looks very plausible for what's in the picture if the equipment is in decent shape. What I'm not sure about is the cymbals look as though they may be dented. Zildjians are great cymbals generally, but dented cymbals lose their value. If it's for a kid, I'd focus on how things sound. Do the cymbals have a clean ringing sound, or are they muddy.
Zildjian ZBTs are their "package" cymbals and are not high quality.

That line of Zildjian cymbals are relatively worthless used.

No as a drummer of 25+ years...THIS IS NOT A GOOD DEAL!

An example of below...

New Ludwig accent (decent starter Luds) with starter kit of ZBT cymbals...599.00 shipped no tax.

http://drums-percussion.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ludwig-Accent-5PC-Kit-and-Zildjian-ZBT-Cymbal-Set-Bundle?sku=443278
 

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Opus was just napping
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wooglin said:
Hadn't thought of that. My impression of electronic drums is that they're not really comparable to real drums. Am I wrong?
You are both wrong and not wrong.

On the low end of the scale (and by low I mean low) electronic kits are worthless. After about 1200.00 you can get into a Yamaha, but its feel is like rubberized plastic and does not require real world bounce or development of quickness in the hands (not to mention tendon issues). At the high end 3000+ you get into Yamaha's high end (variable tension heads--pretty realistic--not terribly aesthetically pleasing) and Roland (trampline like, but best for the joints).

The sounds are fantastic, they do allow for headphone play...the cymbals really lack in general in terms of feel (how could you duplicate the perfection which is a Zildjian K ride).

The add-ons are of course speakers to hear them without the headphones...and a primary benefit is a small footprint comparitively to acoustic sets.

(have owned both...nothing beats acoustic...although if I had the money...I would get a roland high end...and use amplification to fit with real cymbals (the best of both worlds)).
 

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Cheese is my copilot
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thatsmybush said:
accent (decent starter Luds) with starter kit of ZBT cymbals...599.00 shipped no tax.
That's what I was looking at as an alternative. My idea was that a used set at about the same price (and presumably higher quality) would retain more value if I resell it in a couple of years while a new set would lose more value.
 

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jaded bitter joy crusher
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thatsmybush said:
Zildjian ZBTs are their "package" cymbals and are not high quality.
Thks for the clarification. All my equipment is about 20 years old. It's still good and I've not seen the need to replace it, so I'm a bit out of date on newer equipment
 

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Opus was just napping
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wooglin said:
That's what I was looking at as an alternative. My idea was that a used set at about the same price (and presumably higher quality) would retain more value if I resell it in a couple of years while a new set would lose more value.
The Ludwig rockers were not the top of the line Luds and to be honest...as a brand they have not kept up with some of the trickle downs that permeate other brands.

Tama Rockstar shell packs are 500.00 shipped and they have many added features (floating mounts, retractable spikes on the bass-birch basswood).

Mapex...the brand I shill for (not paid too, just play them and love the sound) offer a good bang for the buck. It is the least expensive to get into full Maple...the PRO M series offers this for 550.00 (shell pack). Solid shells (meaning one kind of wood)...is better for resale. Although I like the bright sound of Birch better.

Also you might want to check Pacific (little more)...they are by DW--an uber expensive brand--and have some great trickle down features in their Pacific line.

No drumset is going to offer you a solid shell at the pricepoint you are looking at (if you want cymbals and stands as well)...Maple or Birch plies are going to be too much. You are going to settle for a make up of basswood and birch or maple and basswood most likely.

Finally--how serious is your son? When I said I wanted to play the drums my dad, who is a musician made a simple statement...if it ever came to a point where he and I battled about "making me practice." The drums would go.

25 years...and he never had to send me to my room to make noise.

My first set was a set of Premiers in silver sparkle...damn fine set.
 

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had it in the ear before
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Billy Bob Thornton plays drums for the Boxmasters. HTH
 

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Cheese is my copilot
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
thatsmybush said:
The Ludwig rockers were not the top of the line Luds and to be honest...as a brand they have not kept up with some of the trickle downs that permeate other brands.

Tama Rockstar shell packs are 500.00 shipped and they have many added features (floating mounts, retractable spikes on the bass-birch basswood).

Mapex...the brand I shill for (not paid too, just play them and love the sound) offer a good bang for the buck. It is the least expensive to get into full Maple...the PRO M series offers this for 550.00 (shell pack). Solid shells (meaning one kind of wood)...is better for resale. Although I like the bright sound of Birch better.

Also you might want to check Pacific (little more)...they are by DW--an uber expensive brand--and have some great trickle down features in their Pacific line.

No drumset is going to offer you a solid shell at the pricepoint you are looking at (if you want cymbals and stands as well)...Maple or Birch plies are going to be too much. You are going to settle for a make up of basswood and birch or maple and basswood most likely.

Finally--how serious is your son? When I said I wanted to play the drums my dad, who is a musician made a simple statement...if it ever came to a point where he and I battled about "making me practice." The drums would go.

25 years...and he never had to send me to my room to make noise.

My first set was a set of Premiers in silver sparkle...damn fine set.
Really good post. Thank you. I can get an Accent set with Planet Z cymbals for $550 with free shipping on ebay, so that might be my best bet. I appreciate the other names too, though they're all a little more expensive. As for how serious my son is, that's one of the reasons I'm thinking about resale. He's interested so I'll support it, but we'll have to see how long it lasts. :)
 

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Opus was just napping
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wooglin said:
Really good post. Thank you. I can get an Accent set with Planet Z cymbals for $550 with free shipping on ebay, so that might be my best bet. I appreciate the other names too, though they're all a little more expensive. As for how serious my son is, that's one of the reasons I'm thinking about resale. He's interested so I'll support it, but we'll have to see how long it lasts. :)
That looks pretty good. This is what my dad did. When I showed that I wasn't going to quit.

(Got a paper route as well to help). We went shopping... This was about 2 years in...and I was playing in school at that time as well (let me tell you the pumped up chest you have when you get to the school band and you have your own non-rented snare...and people ask "is that part of a set." --Oh yea baby)... as well as private lessons.

At that point if he shows devotion and some talent...it might be time to upgrade. At my most outragious...I had an 8 piece set with 11 fine Zildjian cymbals. All of the add ons beyond the set, and my first real Zildjians...were either birthday, Xmas presents or I purchased myself. (I am in the tank for Zildjian but Sabian and Paiste make great stuff as well.)

Building the kit of your dreams could take years.
But--like a bike--the shell pack acts like the frame--you can add pretty sparkly bits later. (extra cymbals, a gibralter rack, etc.)
 

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jaded bitter joy crusher
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thatsmybush said:
At the high end 3000+ you get into Yamaha's high end (variable tension heads--pretty realistic--not terribly aesthetically pleasing) and Roland (trampline like, but best for the joints).
Just curious: how are they for rudiments? Last time I tried electronic, many moons ago, they were fun for single-strokes, but sucked for flams, ruffs, rolls, and like that.
 

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Opus was just napping
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Fredke said:
Just curious: how are they for rudiments? Last time I tried electronic, many moons ago, they were fun for single-strokes, but sucked for flams, ruffs, rolls, and like that.
Still not as good.

The Roland's are a little trampolini...not like the old days with the hexagonal Simmons drums of yore, which was just better for your joints than mashing your elbows and wrists on concrete. (Flock of Seagulls comes to mind) Too much bounce--like a screen door on high tension.

Would never recommend anyone learn on one...because they don't bounce the same--getting the dexterity and control is really what rudiments and early drumming skills are all about.

Yamaha's high end comes the closest in my opinion--but they are fugly. Where they do excel is at clubs because you can run them through the board and mix them like any other instrument not like trying to mic a kit which can be pretty tedious in the wrong hands.

Both have got the nuance bit pretty nailed...sure you can do a bit more with an acoustic but with duel triggering and a electronic piano type hammer effect that nets you different ranges of attack and sound...you can get the sound you are looking for in most cases.

But be prepared to spend...and oh the 6,000 dollar set of roland's in all black---I'll be in my bunk.:p
 

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jaded bitter joy crusher
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thatsmybush said:
But be prepared to spend...and oh the 6,000 dollar set of roland's in all black---I'll be in my bunk.:p
I appreciate the comments, but if I ever have 6 grand to spend on recreation, it's buying a bicycle.
 
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