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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Could there be a Mancebo/ Landis connection.
Look how fast Landis has improved: Three impressive wins this year. Last year he was getting shellacked by Tommy D. I havn't heard much of this theory because too many people like Floyd, as do I, but let's get real. Everybody dopes.

I think it is crazy to can all the favorites. I would love nothing more than to see all 5 of this year's top finishers to be banned next year for dope. Nobody will ever try to win again.

Man LA is good. To think for 7 years straight he beat a field of dopers. I swear, if I hear him say was clean one more time I will puke. He will, because frankly he has to, but he should at the very least pledge his support towards Ullrich, Basso, etc. for being found guilty without a fair process.

Without due process the best tactic to win the Tour is to implicate the favorites in doping scandals, and hope your doping leader doesn't get caught.

I think the feed zones should contain a syringe with a rider's choice of dope, and a couple lines of coke for a pick me up. Let them dope, or get real with the tests. Freakin Spanish Federalees. Thanks for ruining the Tour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Forgot a bit of circumstantial twaddle. Apologies

Landis takes over for Hamilton. Team Phonak looks pretty guilty.

Besides Liberty, who would be the frontrunner to be the next team dissolved? Not that another team will or should go down, but if you had to pick. Gut reaction for me is Phonak.
 

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BS the DC
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It's hard not to suspect all or most of the peleton of doping. How can you compete and not dope when you are racing against athletes with an illegal edge? Anyone with unwavering integrity probably never made it to that level of competition. I kind of feel sorry for Ullrich, Basso and the rest of them. I'm don't think they are the only dirty racers. They are just the ones that got caught. Never-the-less, all this needs to be done for the health of the athletes and to give clean athletes a chance to compete fairly.
 

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BikerFox Wannabe
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I suspect any or all of them.

Maybe a shadow of hope for David Millar being clean since he just came back from a two year ban. If he were to get nabbed again his career is over. Also, he was WAY down the finishing order in the Prologue. Sadly the less results he has the more convincing his claims of 'competing' clean.

And again, this thread is a great example of why there should not be a seperate doping forum on this board.
 

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BS the DC
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zero85ZEN said:
Maybe a shadow of hope for David Millar being clean since he just came back from a two year ban. If he were to get nabbed again his career is over. Also, he was WAY down the finishing order in the Prologue. Sadly the less results he has the more convincing his claims of 'competing' clean.

And again, this thread is a great example of why there should not be a seperate doping forum on this board.
While we can argue all day long about what should be done about doping and how to arrange the the forums on this site, I think we can all agree that your avatar should be banned.
 

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BikerFox Wannabe
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Avatar changed per popular request.

bsdc said:
While we can argue all day long about what should be done about doping and how to arrange the the forums on this site, I think we can all agree that your avatar should be banned.
I only wish I could get a photo of my hero with a road bike though....
 

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It is entirely possibly that I am too naive (I am still mourning the loss of Jan and really hope this is all a big mistake about him), but I think there is a strong possibility Floyd is not doping based on this quote in the current issue of Outside:

"Landis won the junior national mountain-biking championship at 17, in 1993, and moved to California two years later. When a curious coach measured his VO2 max (generally thought to be a decent indicator of endurance potential), Landis scored nearly 90 milliliters per kilogram per minute, almost two points better than five-time Tour winner Miguel Indurain."

Unless he was already doping then, this seems like a good indicator that he just won the genetic lottery (as I believe about Lance, or at least continue to try, since I read a study by some doctor who has studied Lance's physiology since he was a teenager, and has found him to simply be a complete freak of nature who can perform at outrageously high levels unlike mere mortals--so the same, unless he has been doping since he was a teenager, it seems like he might just be like that naturally).

The same article talks about Floyd's change in training this winter, which he attributes to the change in his performance since last season.
 

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triscuit said:
Unless he was already doping then, this seems like a good indicator that he just won the genetic lottery (as I believe about Lance, or at least continue to try, since I read a study by some doctor who has studied Lance's physiology since he was a teenager, and has found him to simply be a complete freak of nature who can perform at outrageously high levels unlike mere mortals--so the same, unless he has been doping since he was a teenager, it seems like he might just be like that naturally).
So what happens when all the other guys who are also genetic freaks lying at the extreme of human aerobic capacity dope and you don't?

And Lance was only really good for 3 weeks in July most years, otherwise, he was comparable to any number of other top riders or not even that good.
 
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While there has probably always been someone willing to dope to gain an edge over the history of the Tour, EPO appearence in the 90's (I think) created the first actual "two speed peleton". I think this changed everything.

I may be true that an occassional genetic freak actually doesn't need to dope, and that some talented riders, for various reasons, don't screw with PEDs - but they are clearly a very very small minority. I can't imagine how this sport is going to get cleaned up. TMobile is getting tougher, but can they really afford to take a magnifying glass to every riders life (and the riders do have certain rights to privacy)? I don't think so...
 

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triscuit said:
It is entirely possibly that I am too naive (I am still mourning the loss of Jan and really hope this is all a big mistake about him), but I think there is a strong possibility Floyd is not doping based on this quote in the current issue of Outside:

"Landis won the junior national mountain-biking championship at 17, in 1993, and moved to California two years later. When a curious coach measured his VO2 max (generally thought to be a decent indicator of endurance potential), Landis scored nearly 90 milliliters per kilogram per minute, almost two points better than five-time Tour winner Miguel Indurain."

Unless he was already doping then, this seems like a good indicator that he just won the genetic lottery (as I believe about Lance, or at least continue to try, since I read a study by some doctor who has studied Lance's physiology since he was a teenager, and has found him to simply be a complete freak of nature who can perform at outrageously high levels unlike mere mortals--so the same, unless he has been doping since he was a teenager, it seems like he might just be like that naturally).

The same article talks about Floyd's change in training this winter, which he attributes to the change in his performance since last season.
It's funny, but I know a guy who was a pro triathlete in the late 80's who said that Lance was whipping the pro field in tri's when he was 15 years old. Was he doping then, too?
 

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While I think Floyd is probably one of the few riders mentally strong and independent enough to avoid dope if he chose to, that doesn't mean he is more likely to chose not to dope.

The whole focus of an athlete's life is trying to gain an edge over the competition and with that goal primary it's hard for most people to draw a line until you get to the point of dying mid race.

It doesn't help credibility that the drug war in cycling is filled with the same level of lies and misinformation as the drug war in larger society. Riding 3 week Tours is just not healthy and saying you are better off without any medication to counteract that is a lie which does nothing to promote the cause of cleaner and safer sport.
 

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James OCLV said:
It's funny, but I know a guy who was a pro triathlete in the late 80's who said that Lance was whipping the pro field in tri's when he was 15 years old. Was he doping then, too?
I believe the saying is "what is good, is good fast". I've read Mary Decker-Slaney (sp?) ran a sub-5 minute mile the first time she ever ran a mile when she was a 12 year old in gym class. The fact that Lance was very good not long after he started isn't surprising. It is probably true for just about everyone else in the pro peloton. All of these guys have been thru a long and grueling natural selection process to make it to the elite level. They are all outliers when it comes to aerobic ability to produce energy, even the sprinters. If Lance's precocious abilities were so abnormal, how come he wasn't much more than a strong rouleur in the pro peloton before he got cancer?

Beating a bunch of triathletes in the '80s before EPO is hardly a good arguement for not doping later as a pro cyclist. Landis started out as a mountainbiker near me and from the guys I've talked to made waves his first year and was beating all the local "pros" in his second year before getting on a national team (GT, I believe). I don't think he ever really achieved much in mountainbiking before turning to the road though. Now he is a contender for the TdF, is that proof he's doping now?
 
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