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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Clearly Contador won only by the bad luck of Andy's chain drop. Have there been any other winners whose winning margin was due (or so clearly due?) to something other than their out-riding their competitors?
 

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Or was it because of Cadel's wrist injury, or LA's inability to stay upright, oh, Wiggo could have won it if he hadn't been so mediocre. If he coulda he woulda. You going for a 700 post thread matey? Well done both of them, it was a close tour but I can't see where Schleck was demonstrably superior in any way.
 

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sir duke said:
Or was it because of Cadel's wrist injury, or LA's inability to stay upright, oh, Wiggo could have won it if he hadn't been so mediocre. If he coulda he woulda. You going for a 700 post thread matey? Well done both of them, it was a close tour but I can't see where Schleck was demonstrably superior in any way.
I can't see where a guy who can't even win a stage is superior. His only superiority is in unethical behavior.

To the OP, there have been many tours with strange scenarios. Merckx once won the tour against Ocaña when the latter was the better rider. Lemond won the tour in an incredible last TT because fignon did not use an aerodynamic helmet, neither a triathlon steer. Lance won about 2 tours by his own admission because of mental superiority over the others. Certainly Ulrich could have won a tour on LA, but repeated falls in TT and bad descents decided otherwise.
 

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sir duke said:
Or was it because of Cadel's wrist injury, or LA's inability to stay upright, oh, Wiggo could have won it if he hadn't been so mediocre. If he coulda he woulda. You going for a 700 post thread matey? Well done both of them, it was a close tour but I can't see where Schleck was demonstrably superior in any way.
i think the point was contador wasn't demonstrably superior in any way
 

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I can't remember who it was....but I believe a rider was assaulted by a fan that affected the outcome. I believe it was one of the greats who one 5 tours and it kept them from a 6th....I think. Or it could be a bad week to quit sniffing glue! :D
 

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Shades of the I love Lance/Hate Conti threads of the past.

Just replace "Lance" with "Andy" and there is no need for more threads like this.

Conti won. Time to move on to next year's TdF!
 

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matchmaker said:
I can't see where a guy who can't even win a stage is superior. His only superiority is in unethical behavior.
Hark, the sound of a dead horse being flogged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
LostViking said:
Shades of the I love Lance/Hate Conti threads of the past.

Just replace "Lance" with "Andy" and there is no need for more threads like this.

Conti won. Time to move on to next year's TdF!
What does this have to do with the question I asked?
 

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Contador 07', was taking a beating from Rassmussen before he got pulled out.
Periero 06' was outridden by Landis before his positive.
That's two examples of guys winning without being the best rider in the race.

Condador didn't win because of Andy's luck, he won because Andy's legs couldn't overcome his bad luck. Stuff happens, the race is 21 days long and luck is part of it. Schleck had days in the mountains to get the time back, he couldn't do it. Contador did a great Tour to protect 8 seconds and Andy did a spectacular ride in trying get that time back.
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
Clearly Contador won only by the bad luck of Andy's chain drop. Have there been any other winners whose winning margin was due (or so clearly due?) to something other than their out-riding their competitors?
Right off the bat, he only won because of Andy's chain drop? You don't think he would have taken the stage up the Tourmelet if things were different? That was a gift to Andy. While they were pretty even up the mountains, I do believe Contador could have taken the time necessary to win at some point regardless of that stage. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Precisely, the result being a narrow win for Contador.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
matchmaker said:
... Merckx once won the tour against Ocaña when the latter was the better rider. Lemond won the tour in an incredible last TT because fignon did not use an aerodynamic helmet, neither a triathlon steer. Lance won about 2 tours by his own admission because of mental superiority over the others. Certainly Ulrich could have won a tour on LA, but repeated falls in TT and bad descents decided otherwise.
Of these LeMond over Fignon might be the closest, though I see a difference in an advantage based on employing superior legal technology and an advantage based on a competitors misfortune. Mental superiority is very much a part of all athletics and is part of competition. Personally I'd rate mishaps in TT's differently (and likewise, if the yellow jersey or any other very direct competitor had already been off the back of the group or was a group behind)
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
Clearly Contador won only by the bad luck of Andy's chain drop. Have there been any other winners whose winning margin was due (or so clearly due?) to something other than their out-riding their competitors?
Schleck wasn't better than Contador, Contador took some more time in the TT today, ergo the best man won (or slightly better man).
 

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tconrady said:
I can't remember who it was....but I believe a rider was assaulted by a fan that affected the outcome. I believe it was one of the greats who one 5 tours and it kept them from a 6th....I think. Or it could be a bad week to quit sniffing glue! :D
Eddy Merckx
 

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If AS had not attacked, he would not have dropped the chain.
 

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In the Loop?

InfiniteLoop said:
What does this have to do with the question I asked?
Refers to the rest of your post...not your loaded question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
nOOky said:
Right off the bat, he only won because of Andy's chain drop? You don't think he would have taken the stage up the Tourmelet if things were different? That was a gift to Andy. While they were pretty even up the mountains, I do believe Contador could have taken the time necessary to win at some point regardless of that stage. Just my 2 cents.
I think Contador would have it he could. He wanted to prove that his final victory in Paris was by more than any gains from Andy's chain drop and he wanted to win a stage. At least after following Andy all the way up he didn't try to sprint around (which I assume he could have) for the win.
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
Clearly Contador won only by the bad luck of Andy's chain drop. Have there been any other winners whose winning margin was due (or so clearly due?) to something other than their out-riding their competitors?
I don't see it as clearly as you do. Things being different more likely Contador would have at least got a second or two, at a minimum, in the sprint at the top of the Tourmalet and still beat Schleck.

But to answer your question, the year Pantani beat Ullrich, Ullrich was clearly the stronger rider. Pantani went on a long escapade in the mountains on a rain-filled day, where Ullrich either flatted before or soon after Pantani attacked and could not catch him back.

Ullrich was isolated and went downhill very bady in the conditions and then cracked on the final climb and lost many minutes to Pantani that day, but otherwise was superior to him.
 
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