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Is is out of the question for AS to attack on the final day? Is the last stage just formality and fan fair save for the final sprint?

Josh
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
Clearly Contador won only by the bad luck of Andy's chain drop. Have there been any other winners whose winning margin was due (or so clearly due?) to something other than their out-riding their competitors?
LeMond had to give up 85 Tour to BH, even though GL was stronger rider.
LeMond won 89 Tour due to benefit of Scott aerobar.
Perico won 88 Tour, and accused of using drugs, but was never found guilty.
LeMond won 90 Tour without winning a stage.
In fact, if Indurain didn't ride for Perico, LeMond would've not won the Tour.
But then again, if he didn't get shot by his brother in-law, he would've probably won 87 and 88 Tour.
Riis admitted using performance enhancing drug during his tour win.
Riis' teammate Jan was accused of using performance durg as well, but was never found guilty.
Pantani was busted in Giro, so you can speculate that he cheated.
Sastre won because AC wasn't allowed to ride.
Then, there is LA........you make the call.

That's life......
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
The issue is that Contador's overall winning margin will be considerably less than what he gained by attacking Andy when his chain dropped. If Contador had won by a greater margin (39 seconds ?) there would be little or no controversy.
Isn't his winning margin the same as what he gained when Schleck dropped his chain?
 

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Unwritten Rule

jjjdc1 said:
Is is out of the question for AS to attack on the final day? Is the last stage just formality and fan fair save for the final sprint?

Josh
One of those "unwritten rules" - you don't attack the Yellow Jersey on the final stage.
I'd like a re-write, but can't find the book! :D

So yes, for Conti the final day is a parade, not a race. Only the Sprinters and their teams will be aggressive tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Dwayne Barry said:
Isn't his winning margin the same as what he gained when Schleck dropped his chain?
Yep. I thought I'd heard Ligett say 14 seconds (thus 22s win) but turned out to be 31s so he wins by 39s thus the controversy effectively boils down to the advantage of starting last in the TT.
 

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LostViking said:
One of those "unwritten rules" - you don't attack the Yellow Jersey on the final stage.
I'd like a re-write, but can't find the book! :D

So yes, for Conti the final day is a parade, not a race. Only the Sprinters and their teams will be aggressive tomorrow.
That's what I figured, but would be interesting none the less of it happened.

Josh
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
LostViking said:
One of those "unwritten rules" - you don't attack the Yellow Jersey on the final stage.
I think there have been races on the last day but only when the top 2 were within just a few seconds (LeMond?). It's also extremely tough to gain any time on a flat stage so from a practical standpoint probably any more than a very few seconds diff wouldn't be worth it and I think it's there that the unwritten rule says no attacking the yellow (eg, no attacking unless it's realistic to contest it)
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
Shame, if your post hadn't been deleted I might have agreed with you......
mechanical?? :D
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
I think there have been races on the last day but only when the top 2 were within just a few seconds (LeMond?). It's also extremely tough to gain any time on a flat stage so from a practical standpoint probably any more than a very few seconds diff wouldn't be worth it and I think it's there that the unwritten rule says no attacking the yellow (eg, no attacking unless it's realistic to contest it)
you think? Aren't you the in-house expert on the unwritten rules?
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
Yep. I thought I'd heard Ligett say 14 seconds (thus 22s win) but turned out to be 31s so he wins by 39s thus the controversy effectively boils down to the advantage of starting last in the TT.
Those 31s match what was before the chain drop, simply proving AC would've at least caught Andy no matter what.

But to jump on what could be controversy over where AC started in this TT: I think the only thing he took advantage of was deciding his effort. I bet if he started earlier, he'd have gone much harder. Call me out for assumptions, but based on last year and comparing him to AS, Contador looks like he could've bested Schleck by much more than 31 seconds today.

IF any of that is indeed true, then the bigger question/controversy imo is why AC didn't challenge Menchov's time? He'll pose a much larger threat in the next stage. Whatever AC gained on him during stage 17 evaporated today.
 

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Congrats to Conty. If anything this years shows that Contador will not have and easy time in the TDF with Schleck emerging as a very strong rival especially if he keeps improving his TTing. I expect Schleck to be in yellow at the end of next years TDF. Man I wish Menchov went earlier with Cancellara when the wind was nonexistant. I think he would have been right there with Spartacus. Phenominal ride against the wind for Denny.

Still think LA would have been 3rd or 4th or top 5 at the very least if all the crashing didnt happen. Never seen so much unfortunate incidents happen to him before. Lot of LA hate on this site but I really believe that even at his age he is better than 95-97% of the guys on the tour this year and last, baring his misfortune. No fanboism here just looking at the numbers. How can you dismiss him at 37 yo getting a podium last year and at 38 yo finishing 23rd out of 170 riders this year despite all the misfortune? He could have finished higher if he attacked the TT but he just rode off into the sunset.

Lot of AC hate too which is unfortunate as the man did what he had to do the win his 3rd. I salute him and the way he and Andy competed against each other. I think the fanbois of both need to remove their bias and look at the cold hard numbers.

BTW Im gonna miss Alphonse lol. The look on LA's face in those commercials gave me laughs. Kind of like a Mr. Bean character but with speech.
 

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yup

gebbyfish said:
Eddy Merckx
punched in the gut by a French guy
and he would have had a 7th but took a year off at the Tour's request, so he won the Giro (GC and Points), the Vuelta (GC and Points), Paris - Roubaix, Liège - Bastogne - Liège,
Grand Prix des Nations, Amstel Gold Race, Ghent - Wevelgem, Omloop Het Volk,
Paris - Brussels, GP Fourmies, Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
and set the hour record instead (1973)
 

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InfiniteLoop said:
My post was inaccurate thus my deletion.
Pure speculation based on 'what might have been' doesn't need to be accurate. But I guess you knew that...:D
 

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tinkerbeast said:
i think the point was contador wasn't demonstrably superior in any way
10 seconds each on the mountain stages
~30 seconds each due to mechanicals.

but Contador was :

15 seconds better during the prologue
31 seconds better during the ITT

So yes, Contador was demostrably better.
 

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How much of the margin this year is attributable to the teams of AS and AC? Did Andy or Alberto have the stronger team? (On the cobbles AS clearly benefitted.)
 

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tinkerbeast said:
i think the point was contador wasn't demonstrably superior in any way
He didn't dump his chain, and he didn't crash, and he was faster in the TTs, and he took that one mtn stage by 10seconds. I'm a Schleck fan, but you can't do ALL of these things and expect to win. The field waited for him once. Contador was superior....like it or not.
 
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