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Anything wrong with riding you saddle pushed way back? Did some reading on knee over pedal axle and decided to give it a try. If I follow this guideline I end up using a shorter stem (90 mm, used to ride a 110) on my 56cm bike. I also lowered the seat a little at the same time. Basically, it has worked out quite well. I'm climbing hills much faster now. The one thing I noticed is at the 3 o'clock position, the front of the lower half of my leg is perfectly vertical. I have noticed that at this position, other rides tend to have the lower half of their leg angled back a little.

Is this simply rider preference? I was told that climbers tend to like their seat back a little more. Knees seem to feel good.
 

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la dolce vita
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It will void your saddle warranty if you end up cracking a rail. Learned this first hand. They recommend more middle of the rail settings. You can try a set back post that will give you a more neutral rail position.
 

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Depends on the saddle...one reason I like my Fizik Arione is that it's long . I can scoot way back or move forward on the nose...I can do the same thing with my Regal.

If you are happy with the saddle you have now you could consider a seatpost with more setback.....
 

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You ride with your saddle in the middle of the rails you get a smoother ride as the rails act as shock absorbers for the bouncing of you on the saddle. If you have to move it back, you should get a different seat post such as a straight without a set back.
 

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Bassackwards

lawrence said:
You ride with your saddle in the middle of the rails you get a smoother ride as the rails act as shock absorbers for the bouncing of you on the saddle. If you have to move it back, you should get a different seat post such as a straight without a set back.
If you need to move your seat all the way back, then you need a seat post WITH set back, not a straight one. You have it backwards.
 

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I was "fit" by my local shop that looking back I don't think knew what they were doing. They insisted on fitting me initially to KOPS; which moved my saddle all the way back (on an already setback post) and then they gave me the option of a 80-90mm stem.

Then the guy tried to sell me a frame.

I made their fit work for a while; and it was fine honestly.

But since then, I've gotten a longer stem, moved my saddle to the middle of the rails, and my bike handling/stability has finally normalized, I feel better on the bike, and I'm adapting to the new position.

Wish I would have discovered this ages ago.

Case in point: don't worry about it. But if you are all the way back out of necessity, seems to me something is wrong. On a set back post I think you should be right around in the middle.

Also as was said, I don't like riding my Arione where I know the rails aren't very strong. It'd be a stupid way to break something.
 

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As your experience suggests, KOPS doesn't really relate to anything with anatomy, just a quick rule of thumb. As to saddle position, given that seat tube angles range from 72 to 75 degrees, the rail position tells very little!

People also vary in foot length and foot pedal position.

Best research seems to suggest a knee angle of 25 to 30 degrees. Hip angle seems less constrained. Saddle position - setback and tilt - need to allow good "teeter" balance, with hands and rear sharing appropriate load. What's appropriate depends on use, rider tolerance, and individual physiology. Although most people aren't as different as you'd think.

As to use, spinning up hills takes a saddle further forward. TT does, too. But most road riders find a somewhat more rearward position to provide comfortable balance.

Here's how you get a short stem bike with a saddle all the way back. Either the customer or the racy boy fitter at the shop puts the saddle in the middle of the rails on a zero or slight setback post with a modern geometry bike having a steep seat tube angle. The seat is a fairly long way forward. The stem is flipped to get the bike in a "racy" position. The stem was too short to begin with, but the position fits for a Tri or TT or very fast short road position. Handles OK, kills the nuts and hands after a bit, stiff neck, too. So the stem gets flipped up. Then the bike feels short, so the saddle goes all the way back. Still feels weird, so an even shorter stem gets fitted, even though a longer one might restore balance. Many variations on this, mostly leading to discomfort plus weird weight distribution giving odd handling.

I can't imagine a firm not backing up use of any portion of the rails where the clamp will fit. That's what the straight run of the rails is supposed to do! If the makers really had a concern they'd put a conspicuous warning and would make misuse difficult. Nature of safety related features.

Anyway, most modern bikes seem to fit well for handling with a substantially set back post, 2.5 to 3.5 inches setback looks common to me, and sized so that the forward bend of the bars is over the front hub, generally taking a longer stem than most stock bikes seem to have in this country. Saddle back, bars forward, nice handling.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/photos/2008/tech/reviews/wilier_izoard08/full_6769

looks just right - saddle is indeed back compared to the post, handlebars forward nicely, not as much drop as you'd think. Looks almost identical to my position and that of many many good riders. There's a reason for the conformance.

If the setup on the OP's bike gives a geometry about like this and the post isn't a strongly set back one, then perhaps changing a post is in order.

One thing that leads to weird handling and a tendency to play post games is US maker fit games. For example, the Specialized Tarmac tends to come with a slightly short stem 54 comes with a 110 stem. 54.8 cm TT. So it's like a traditional 55, which would normally run a 120. Doesn't seem like much, but too many bikes I see are one size too big for performance handling. Not like a Rivendell fit, but not what you'd see in a peloton either.

The 54 cm Roubaix has a shallower head tube angle. Would expect to need a slightly longer stem, a 125 for example, but it comes with a 100 cm stem. That's a huge difference, and threads on odd handling, shimmy, understeer, and the like exist about these bikes. They're better set with that longer stem and work great like that. See this Roubaix which has a racing take on that type of frame.

A symptom like a saddle in an odd position on the post really calls for a neutral examination. Now a tourist may like the upright understeer of a big bike and a TT specialist may want something quite small and tucked under, but most of us want to ride a performance bike that's comfortable. Look to the fits of the peloton. Not necessarily the captains and strong men, but the domestiques who get to ride 1000s of miles fast and have to be comfortable.

I'm think the domestiques will be calling for road suspension soon. Comfort is the key to speed and endurance in my book!
 

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mwilcko2 said:
Anything wrong with riding you saddle pushed way back?
Just don't try to run right after your done! I like riding with the saddle pretty far back, so I kept it that way for my first tri. Evidently, the running muscles don't like it the saddle way back, and cramps ensued..
 

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Probably measured wrong

DM.Aelis said:
I was "fit" by my local shop that looking back I don't think knew what they were doing. They insisted on fitting me initially to KOPS; which moved my saddle all the way back (on an already setback post).
It sounds like they didn't measure you properly. Either that or your frame was a pretty poor fit. Since the normal range around KOPS is +1/-3 cm, if you ended up with your saddle all the way back, they either goofed the measure or your seat tube was way too steep. Few people find themselves way ahead of KOPS.
 

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FWIW anyone with a Brooks saddle is PROBABLY going to end up pushing the saddle back due to the short rails
Or at least that's where I am (really freakishly long femurs)
 

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I had a professional fit on my bike and later when I changed saddles I had to go with a straight seat post instead of the set back post because of the saddle rails. When I installed the new saddle I dropped a plumb bob and aligned my knee with the axle and moved the saddle and it was all the way back? forward? it wasn't right and I had to get a straight seat post to get the seat rails in the middle.
 

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Mootsie said:
It will void your saddle warranty if you end up cracking a rail. Learned this first hand. They recommend more middle of the rail settings. You can try a set back post that will give you a more neutral rail position.
I don't see how this can be unless the saddle specifically said it had to be run at a certain position. Like how seatposts have a minimum insertion mark.
 

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MIN in PDX said:
rivbike.com has a new seatpost with your name on it. the price hurts.

That is gorgeous..... (looks like a frog...LOL)
A nitto....I just bought a nitto (crystal) I love it.....my fit is perfect....but the seat is indeed all the way back...
 
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