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What's interesting is that last year he dismissed Ullrich's arm position, now it looks like he's copied it.
 

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after Ullrich beats him, he copies his position...

In TdF 03, Ullrich beat him in 2 out of 3 ITT (in the third Ullrich fell). Now it seems that L.A. wants to adopt Jan's position. The picture belows shows both positions clearly.
 

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mgp said:
What's interesting is that last year he dismissed Ullrich's arm position, now it looks like he's copied it.
I hope Lance knows what he's doing! he has abandoned the the guidance of THE man who put him in his best aerodynamic position. Johnny Cobb, personally told me that "once Lance started changing his arm position from narrow elbows to a more wide set-up he would start to loose time trials". Now, Lance has gone and tried to "reinvent" some new or better position with the help of so-called experts that don't have near as much wind-tunnel time as does Johnny. We'll see how he does, I personally think he made a BIG mistake.
 

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Is it me or is his position just not right?

I've always thought his position looked cramped and weird, but now it looks worse. The bike looks too close to a road bike. It looks like the seat tube angle needs to be greatly increased especially with his adoption of the semi "Jan" hand positioning. Jan's position I think works because the seat tube angle is greater and the bars are so low that his weight is greatly shifted to the pedals instead of the seat. I think this works for him because he has a slower cadence. It seems Lance is combining a bunch of things that don't mix. Since he does have a fast cadence, a more relaxed seat tube angle works for him. Putting the bars really low in combination with a bike that looks like it has a lesser seat angle than the old time trail bike seems like an ever worsening mix. I don't have the geometries of any of the bikes so what I am saying may not be true. I'm just going by initial looks and I realize the eye is easily decieved. Does anybody agree/disagree?

But then again Lance has always done pretty darn well, so who knows. I guess if it works for him then it works. Enough said.

Does any body have geometries of the Bianchi TT bike (love the looks of this bike) and the new TT bike for Lance? Is the Bianchi TT bike on the Bianchi site? Is anybody selling it?

Thanks John
 

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Whatever.

jaybike said:
I personally think he made a BIG mistake.
I'm not here to diss on John Cobb, but when people want to talk about aeronautics, that's my field, and I'll jump in. First of all, about all the time Cobb has had in tunnels, look in the background. In more than one picture, I've seen Mark Drela. Now Mark Drela doesn't mean much to you, but he's probably one of the best aeronautics people in the country and a professor at MIT. The point is this: Cobb can take a look at trends, write a few paragraphs, and everyone thinks he knows everything there is to know about cycling and drag. He doesn't even run his own experiments, and he's not trained in the field. He's a smart guy, but to hold him as an aero god is a big mistake, and to think that Lance changing his position is going to cause all hell to break loose shows how little people know about aero.

#1. Lance is $15 million a year industry. You don't change things on a whim. He spends $$$ on wind tunnel time. From what I hear, he was at UW this fall.

#2. Aeronautics is about little things, things that you CAN'T tell by looking at, and in many cases wouldn't think to be true. I don't care if Cobb says wide elbows are bad. It might have been for one position. It might reduce drag in another.

#3. Hand position is a rotation of the wrist is not copying Jan's position. Jan's forearms are in a much different position.

#4. The position isn't even that different. If anything, it looks more comfortable. He didn't go to a 10" drop on his bars or anything.

See how he races before making conclusions, at least for lack of wind tunnel and power output data.
 

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Aerodynamics isn't an intuitive science. Why do you think it takes people 5 years to get a Bachelor's Degree in a respectable program? Again guys, don't forget that cycling is mainly going to be a compromise. In this case between a comfortable position for max power and an aero position.
 

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If Lance loses a time trial it won't be because of a seperation with Cobb. Jan putting out more watts will do that for him. I had laughs last year while riding with one of Lance's former teammates over how people have to have a 100% defined reason for Lance to lose. Instead of saying that Lance was beaten by a competitor that was better prepared that day and rode stronger. Before everyone starts blasting please know that by preparation I mean LA's hydration and other key factors that should not have been an issue for a a man who'd won Four consecutive TdF's.

Steve Hed has been working with Lance for months on this. I saw them working on this fit in December and like mentioned above they have done the wind tunnel stuff at UW. When Lance is at camp or at a tv commercial these guys are always waiting for him. The nike shoe guys, the TT guys, all of them spend massive amounts of time delivering exactly what he wants. They all take turns patiently waiting their turn to get 10 minutes so that they can answer the next battery of questions. Lance is going to tinker with stuff when you see him with these guys you'd understand. but the bottom line is tinkering doesn't mean sh*t if the tinkering deosn't help and that is why he will TT at Algarve. If things don't work then he won't stick with the plan.
 

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Crank length

Not to sway the topic any, but in the trekbike linked photo of the TT bike those crank arms look very short to me. Might just be photo distortion, but they look shorter than 165's.
Are they short, or is it just the camera angle?
Just curious.
 

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Exactly, with the amount of wind tunnel time he puts in, every "new" position is well tested before he ever hits the road. Additionally, Carmichael says LA rides his TT bike once a week on average, so I imagine he was been adjusting to it for a while before now.

The new position does seem to be that big an adjustment, in the aero vs. power balance, it looks like they are sliding closer to adding more power with a slightly more open position- which usually means better breathing and better power. Given some of the helmet and gear advances coming out of his camp, I imagine this has a tangible benefit too.
 

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seriously!!! (nm)

seriously
 

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I thought the same thing...

I guess we will see this week, isn't he doing a TT to see what he thinks of the new position?
 
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