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Should Bonds Retire in Disgrace or is he being Exploited?

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Soon to be banned
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Discussion Starter #1
Considering the new book detailing Bonds' steroid use, do you think Bonds should retire in disgrace?

Or, do you think these people are just trying to get rich off Bonds?
 

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here comes trouble
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Both. Bonds was an above average player before the 'roids, but now I think he should just retire. He's old, he's not going to break anymore records, and I don't like him.

But outside of that, the publisher/author/etc of the book are exploiting him for their own profit, but that's not a new game. It comes with being a superstar.
 

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My back hurts
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I also agree that both statements are true. Bonds is an unrepentant doper and a jackass on top of it. He should retire. OTOH, the authors have made their names off the doping issue and are now going to cash in big time. The same thing happens whenever there's scandal. Vincent Bugliosi got rich off the Manson trial. Loads of people made money off the OJ Simpson cases. Woodward and Bernstein got rich off Watergate.
 

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Cat 6
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Well...the only thing I feel confident in is if he hadn't been such a jerk his whole career, especially in the late years, he might have had more sympathy now. It will be interesting once the book comes out to see names/dates/etc. Supposedly it's based on court documents, interviews, etc. so they seem to have quite a bit of "evidence"...without hard evidence. Granted it's still people talking but early reports seem pretty damning...

He won't retire before topping Ruth...you can bank on that...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Actually, I think Bonds needs like 15 HRs to break Babe Ruth's HR record. If he's been cheating, he shouldn't be allowed to break the record.

Also, if the allegations are true then are they really exploiting him or exposing his cheating?
 

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Th guys a doper just like McGuire, Palmiero, Sosa and a host of others. The claim about the steroid cream that he put on himself and didn't know what it was was laughable. Every record which these modern roid robots achieve should have a big asterisk next to them. He'll stay and pass Ruth because of the roids help, it'll therefore be a bogus achievement.
 

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Growing Older, Not Up
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I could vote for both as well. Barry isn't helping the game and I really love baseball so he needs to go. He will probably be around for another year. Hopefully, he'll pass Ruth in SF because I really don't want to see the replay of him circling the bases to boos for the rest of my life. Yes, he's a jerk but I must say he was amazing to watch while he was locked in.

OTOH, the writers are out for a quick buck. I really don't get how the baseball media has annoited themselves the special prosecutors on steroids. They loved making money writing about all the home runs but now roids pieces sell so they turn to these.
 

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spyderman said:
Actually, I think Bonds needs like 15 HRs to break Babe Ruth's HR record. If he's been cheating, he shouldn't be allowed to break the record.

Also, if the allegations are true then are they really exploiting him or exposing his cheating?
What some call exploitation I would simply call revealing and documenting in short form the truth of what this bum has done. If everyone who ever documented an event and made money from it was an exploiter, then you could say that anyone who has ever recorded any historical event in written form and sold the book, novel, encyclopedia, etc was an exploiter of a historical situation. I see nothing wrong with what these guys are writing, don't shoot the messenger.
 

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But mac, that's how a capitalist society works. There's no copyright laws to prohibit someone from writing about your life without your permission. Although I'm not convinced the authors of the new book are entirely objective, it will be nice to see what kind of meat they have to back up the allegations. If it's substantial, then it will be better than the unsubstantiated insults/claims/etc thrown around all the time. And if the evidence proves to be iffy, it could help Bonds make his own case.

Personally, I think there should be mandatory random steroids testing through MLB. But I don't think the player's union would agree to it. On top of that, no one who made their career by doping should be allowed into the HOF based on those accomplishments. Make more money, fine. But don't try to market yourself as one of the best players of all time when you were doped up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
paint said:
no one who made their career by doping should be allowed into the HOF based on those accomplishments. Make more money, fine. But don't try to market yourself as one of the best players of all time when you were doped up.
Excellent point! Take the HOF away from anyone found to be using performance enhancing drugs.
 

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A Canadian in Sweden
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Sorry,
But could someone fill me in a little, what's happening with Bonds and this book thing? There is defintely something I'm missing here... I've always thought the guy was a great hitter, but an arrogant a§§hole. People might say that he brought fans to the game, but in the end, his attitude may have turned off so many people.
Cheers, Wayne
 

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Bonds is a steroid junkie and this book claims to have proof.
 

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paint said:
But mac, that's how a capitalist society works. There's no copyright laws to prohibit someone from writing about your life without your permission. Although I'm not convinced the authors of the new book are entirely objective, it will be nice to see what kind of meat they have to back up the allegations. If it's substantial, then it will be better than the unsubstantiated insults/claims/etc thrown around all the time. And if the evidence proves to be iffy, it could help Bonds make his own case.
I completely agree with you. I have no problem with journalists who've spent substantial time and effort covering a story cashing in on it. If their claims hold up, Bonds is discredited. If they don't Bonds presumably has a defamation case against the authors.
 

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I have almost no interest in baseball now because the game has slowed down to a boring crawl and watching it on TV is like sitting in a corner of the room for four hours.

It didn't take a genius to figure out those guys were roiders. If you compared before and after photos of these guys it was clear they were loading up on steroids. A slew of players cheated but I don't think you can ban records because some of them haven't been caught and steriods were not banned for a long time. I think they need to put an asterik by the whole game for the last 10 years with the understanding it was a steroid period in baseball.

I thought Kirby Puckett was a real plus for baseball but would any of you be surprised if steriods played a part in his failing health? I hope that is not the case but it sure makes you wonder.
 

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My problem with baseball these days is the homerun phenomenon in general. The fascination with the long ball is one of the major catalysts of steroid use - the constant need to be bigger and stronger, when used to fast running and quick thinking were the best assets. Look at Ty Cobb (not that he's a bastion of good character). He could hit a homerun all day long (and did it when Ruth was young - 5 homers in one double-header day just to prove he could), but his greatest asset was his ability to read a pitcher and distract him while he was on base. Gave the guys behind him a bigger advantage, and quite frankly that style of ball is more interesting than any game where your main options are homers or strikeouts.

Baseball used to be the athlete's chess. Now it's just a musclefest.
 

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Yes, I mean, if they are going to let guys like Bond, Maguire, Sosa, etc into the Hall, then they should also let Rose or Shoeless Joe in, cause Bonds, etc. all cheated too.

Kind of like big rider, I grew up a huge baseball fan. Played the traditional sandlot, yada yada, yada, but then just gave up all interest in the game mainly after the strike of 1994 (well and the fact that my favorite team, the Tigers, were simply so horrible for so long). Now I don't think that anyone could pay me money to go to a ball game. Even minor league baseball that I used to like holds no appeal to me now, oh, well.
 

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lousylegs said:
Yes, I mean, if they are going to let guys like Bond, Maguire, Sosa, etc into the Hall, then they should also let Rose or Shoeless Joe in, cause Bonds, etc. all cheated too.
I agree that Rose and Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall. Shoeless Joe never cheated, just took the cash. Rose didn't cheat as a player, was just a bonehead as a manager.

Bonds would have been a HOFer without roids. He would have still conservatively hit 500HRs without em. He and Willy Mays are the only 500HR/500SB players in MLB history. McGwire and Sosa probably would have been borderline without the roids.

One of the interesting things I heard that is in the book is that prior to the 73HR season, Bonds had some vision issues and that the roids helped his sight. I'm far from an expert here but I wasn't aware steroids could do that.

Go back to the game, grab a dog, and you'll be hooked again!
 

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paint said:
My problem with baseball these days is the homerun phenomenon in general. The fascination with the long ball is one of the major catalysts of steroid use - the constant need to be bigger and stronger, when used to fast running and quick thinking were the best assets. Look at Ty Cobb (not that he's a bastion of good character). He could hit a homerun all day long (and did it when Ruth was young - 5 homers in one double-header day just to prove he could), but his greatest asset was his ability to read a pitcher and distract him while he was on base. Gave the guys behind him a bigger advantage, and quite frankly that style of ball is more interesting than any game where your main options are homers or strikeouts.

Baseball used to be the athlete's chess. Now it's just a musclefest.
Its coming back to a pitchers game and strategy is as big a part now as in the past 20 years. The White Sox traded there best hitter for a gnat and a few relievers because Ozzie Guillen wanted to play small ball. They won the Series.

There's tons of strategy in the game. The offense you're referring to. Bullpen strategy to get thru the game. Even the stategy of building a team (hence the no WS for the Yanks for a while, for them). Pick up a copy of Money Ball by Michael Lewis. Its a great read even if you aren't baseball fan!
 

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I didn't say there's no strategy. I just don't like homerun ball. Small ball is much more interesting, which is why I always loved Ozzie Guillen. When he was with the Braves he was one of my favorite players.

Pitchers can get you far, but they can't win a game for you. See the Braves allll through the 90s (except '95, obviously).
 

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crumjack said:
I agree that Rose and Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall. Shoeless Joe never cheated, just took the cash. Rose didn't cheat as a player, was just a bonehead as a manager.

Bonds would have been a HOFer without roids. He would have still conservatively hit 500HRs without em. He and Willy Mays are the only 500HR/500SB players in MLB history. McGwire and Sosa probably would have been borderline without the roids.

One of the interesting things I heard that is in the book is that prior to the 73HR season, Bonds had some vision issues and that the roids helped his sight. I'm far from an expert here but I wasn't aware steroids could do that.

Go back to the game, grab a dog, and you'll be hooked again!
I always thought that Rose should be let in to the Hall but that his punishment would be that it would not go in effect while he was alive.
 
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