[cru_jones]

I'm looking at buying a new carbon frame that has a BB30 shell. I've put a full Rival group on my current bike earlier this year, and plan on swapping it all over, so I don't want to have to buy another crank just yet. I know I won't get the full effect of the BB30 with an adapter, but my quesiton is are all adapters permament?

I read the instructions on the SRAM version but it states the installation in a carbon shell is permament, due to the use of Loctite I'm assuming.

The FSA version doesn't state either way (al, st or carbon), and they also have a BB30 adapter removal tool.

Just looking to get schooled on what route I should go. I would buy a BB30 crankset if using an adapter is permament, but I'd rather get some more miles on what I already have first.

Thanks!

 

[PJ352]

I believe some manufacturers (C'dale comes to mind) that recommend against removing the BB30 insert because of potential frame damage, but members here have posted that they've installed/ removed them without issue.

You may want to post in the Components forum because folks there are more likely to have firsthand knowledge of this topic.

 

[aengbretson]

Cannondale specifically states that if the BB30 is installed on a carbon frame then it is a permanent change. My guess is that the potential for damage to the carbon/metal interface of the BB while pressing out the adapter (more stressful on the frame than the installation) is the justification. However, on a metal BB (caad9, six13, system six) they say go ahead and remove it, but repeated installation and removal could cause damage.

I'm willing to bet that other manufacturers follow similar lines.

 

[PJ352]

Cannondale specifically states that if the BB30 is installed on a carbon frame then it is a permanent change. My guess is that the potential for damage to the carbon/metal interface of the BB while pressing out the adapter (more stressful on the frame than the installation) is the justification. However, on a metal BB (caad9, six13, system six) they say go ahead and remove it, but repeated installation and removal could cause damage.

I'm willing to bet that other manufacturers follow similar lines.

I'm not, but you bring up a good point. The OP should check with the frame manufacturer beforehand to make sure s/he doesn't void the warranty. Better to know than to guess.

 

[cru_jones]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I'm just on the fence. From what I can tell BB30 isn't really "taking over" (yet?), but if I'm a building a long-term bike and I have the opportunity, I kinda think I want to just go for it.

I could still get a few bucks for my Rival crankset and offset a Force BB30 crankset. I don't think i want to take the chance of damaging the frame.

 

[aengbretson]

It is possible to remove the adapter without damaging the frame. The mechanic has to carefully apply a loctite solvent to soften it up and ensure that the removal tool ONLY touches the metal part of the BB. The carbon/metal interface isn't meant to withstand large shear forces so if they don't have the right tool they could end up putting force on the surrounding carbon and separating the BB shell from the frame. Bad news.

FWIW, if you have the $$ I'd go BB30. I'm waiting for the winter to swap my ultegra crank out for a C'dale SI one. And again, it is possible but it might void your warranty no matter who does it if you indeed have a carbon frame. That being said, there are plenty of people who have removed these adapters from their carbon frames. It just takes a good mechanic and some patience.

Still, a voided warranty isn't a good thing... I agree with PJ352, check your owner's manual or the manufacturer's specs to be sure.

 

[PJ352]

Thanks for the responses. I guess I'm just on the fence. From what I can tell BB30 isn't really "taking over" (yet?), but if I'm a building a long-term bike and I have the opportunity, I kinda think I want to just go for it.

I could still get a few bucks for my Rival crankset and offset a Force BB30 crankset. I don't think i want to take the chance of damaging the frame.

You haven't offered many specifics about the CF frame you're considering, but FWIW I think unless you're a pro/ power rider you won't notice any benefits from the BB30 system. Most of resistance from the twisting forces appplied will come from the frames BB area, rather than the BB30 system. I'll qualify that by stating that this is based on my limited research and experiences, so YMMV.

If you're hellbent on going with the BB30 CF frame, I think it would be wise to just opt for the BB30 crankset.

 

[cru_jones]

I've been looking at these two framesets:

Pedal Force QS3

Soul Trinity

Both are in my budget. I don't believe the Soul has BB30. It doesn't say so on the description, and doesn't look like it from the pictures, but I have emailed them for clarification.

I'm about 5'7", 140 lbs, 32 years old and not really able to put on much more weight, so I don't see myself getting any bigger.

I've been riding/racing mtb bikes for 15 years, and last year decided to start road for x-training. But I really like it, and want a lighter, stiffer frame (currently on an alum 2004 Allez frame). Probably going to do a few races next season as well. It's my only bike, so I would have a hard time dropping 2G+ on a frame to get a name brand and light weight if it's my training, fun and racing rig all in one.

As far as power is concerned, I'm pretty much on the lower end of the segment. It takes work for me to hang in the flats, but I usually walk away from the same guys on climbs (not all the time, but most of the time).

I'm certainly not fixed on getting the BB30...just only want to do it once that's all.

 

[PJ352]

I've been looking at these two framesets:

Pedal Force QS3

Soul Trinity

Both are in my budget. I don't believe the Soul has BB30. It doesn't say so on the description, and doesn't look like it from the pictures, but I have emailed them for clarification.

I'm about 5'7", 140 lbs, 32 years old and not really able to put on much more weight, so I don't see myself getting any bigger.

I've been riding/racing mtb bikes for 15 years, and last year decided to start road for x-training. But I really like it, and want a lighter, stiffer frame (currently on an alum 2004 Allez frame). Probably going to do a few races next season as well. It's my only bike, so I would have a hard time dropping 2G+ on a frame to get a name brand and light weight if it's my training, fun and racing rig all in one.

As far as power is concerned, I'm pretty much on the lower end of the segment. It takes work for me to hang in the flats, but I usually walk away from the same guys on climbs (not all the time, but most of the time).

I'm certainly not fixed on getting the BB30...just only want to do it once that's all.

From the pics I'd say the Soul is also equipped for BB30, but you're wise to get clarification on that.

I'm not knocking the Allez, because I think they're nice bikes, but you may find that a current CF frameset is noticably stiffer than the Allez in the BB area, without resorting to BB30 (which I'm skeptical adds stiffness). OTOH if the frameset you settle on is BB30 ready, you may as well install it, thus avoiding any warranty issues.

FWIW (except for age), our stats are very close - to within 1" in height and 1 lb. By no means do those stats don't tell the whole story, but being classified as a spinner, IME I've run across more overly stiff bikes than I have noodles, so standard (Shimano Hollowtech ll) cranksets always suited the purpose. Again, YMMV.

 

[cru_jones]

Unless I can ride each bike, identically setup under nearly identical circumstances, I'm not 100% conviced I'll be able to tell the difference (assuming the Soul is not BB30)...I'm not just that good of a rider.

But I do know that I've ridden a couple of my friends' full CF bikes, and even though they weren't setup perfectly for me, they felt light years ahead of my Allez in response, handling and weight....so I think I would happy with either given my current ride and intended usage.

The Soul is a little more, but if it's not BB30, then the total $ is less because I won't need a new BB30 crankset. They are close enough in geo and weight that I don't think I'll be able to decide that one is "better" than the other.

Since we are on the topic, any other sugggestions for a framset in the $1000 range to look at (or should I start yet another "what should I buy" thread)?

BTW, I appreciated your responses.

 

[PJ352]

Unless I can ride each bike, identically setup under nearly identical circumstances, I'm not 100% conviced I'll be able to tell the difference (assuming the Soul is not BB30)...I'm not just that good of a rider.

But I do know that I've ridden a couple of my friends' full CF bikes, and even though they weren't setup perfectly for me, they felt light years ahead of my Allez in response, handling and weight....so I think I would happy with either given my current ride and intended usage.

The Soul is a little more, but if it's not BB30, then the total $ is less because I won't need a new BB30 crankset. They are close enough in geo and weight that I don't think I'll be able to decide that one is "better" than the other.

Since we are on the topic, any other sugggestions for a framset in the $1000 range to look at (or should I start yet another "what should I buy" thread)?

BTW, I appreciated your responses.

I agree that it would be next to impossible to set up two bikes identically and test the BB30 equipped bike against the standard one and feel a discernable difference with either set up, so I don't think that issue alone should be the driving force. It's not like you're comparing a previous generation (name that component) to a current one. Unless you see BB30 becoming the standard, which I don't - at least in the near future.

If you're shifting discussion (and focus) from BB30 to 'which frameset to buy', it's your call whether you start a new thread. But in the interim I'll offer that since you're buying online, you should take a close look at the geometry of both frames under consideration. I'd have to look back at the geo of the '03 Allez, but at first glance the Soul looks closer to Specialized geo than the Pedal Force. That may not matter to you (especially if the Allez isn't particularly to your liking), but something to be aware of, because both framesets are a little different in that regard.

As far as other framesets in the $1k range, I think what you're looking at is representative of what's available, but you may get more ideas/ thoughts if you post in the Frames/ Forks forum.

One last thought. I noticed the PF frame comes with a 5 year warranty, but saw no info on the Soul. If that's a concern to you, you may want to get clarification on that.

 

[Argentius]

BB30 adapters

There are two types of BB30 adapter, to accept traditional "english" bottom brackets.

The style you mention basically loctites in an aluminum sleeve, and then one threads in a standard bottom bracket cartridge.

The other style retains the BB30 bearings, and presses in a shim to use a smaller axle crank -- this only works with 2-piece cranks like Shimano Hollowtech 2's. Wheels

Manufacturing makes one that coworkers have used, it seems to work well. It is fairly easy to remove without damage.

 

[cru_jones]

I agree that it would be next to impossible to set up two bikes identically and test the BB30 equipped bike against the standard one and feel a discernable difference with either set up, so I don't think that issue alone should be the driving force. It's not like you're comparing a previous generation (name that component) to a current one. Unless you see BB30 becoming the standard, which I don't - at least in the near future.

If you're shifting discussion (and focus) from BB30 to 'which frameset to buy', it's your call whether you start a new thread. But in the interim I'll offer that since you're buying online, you should take a close look at the geometry of both frames under consideration. I'd have to look back at the geo of the '03 Allez, but at first glance the Soul looks closer to Specialized geo than the Pedal Force. That may not matter to you (especially if the Allez isn't particularly to your liking), but something to be aware of, because both framesets are a little different in that regard.

As far as other framesets in the $1k range, I think what you're looking at is representative of what's available, but you may get more ideas/ thoughts if you post in the Frames/ Forks forum.

One last thought. I noticed the PF frame comes with a 5 year warranty, but saw no info on the Soul. If that's a concern to you, you may want to get clarification on that.

I included a question about the warranty to Soul since there is no mention of it on their website.

Here's the geometry chart for the

05 Allez. Effective TT of 52cm frame is 537mm. It doesn't fit too bad, but I'm want a more aggressive position in the new frame. Sometimes I feel like it is a little long (100mm stem, centered saddle), but I'm not sure since I haven't been professinally fitted on it.


Soul Trinity The effective TT is either 525 or 535 for size 2 or 3.

QS3 Effective TT of the 50cm is 530.

I plan on using my stock stuff (have a 31.6 post laying around) to get the bike built and then I'll get fitted for the final determination of bar, stem and seatpost since I'll be upgrading those.

PF has a non-BB30 frame as well...I'd have to ask you guys for some help what headset and fork type to get with that. The claimed weight for the frame in my size is the same as the QS3.

 

[frdfandc]

The Soul Trinity isn't BB30. In the 2nd picture, if you look very closely, you can see the external BB cup.

 

[PJ352]

I included a question about the warranty to Soul since there is no mention of it on their website.

Here's the geometry chart for the

05 Allez. Effective TT of 52cm frame is 537mm. It doesn't fit too bad, but I'm want a more aggressive position in the new frame. Sometimes I feel like it is a little long (100mm stem, centered saddle), but I'm not sure since I haven't been professinally fitted on it.


Soul Trinity The effective TT is either 525 or 535 for size 2 or 3.

QS3 Effective TT of the 50cm is 530.

I plan on using my stock stuff (have a 31.6 post laying around) to get the bike built and then I'll get fitted for the final determination of bar, stem and seatpost since I'll be upgrading those.

PF has a non-BB30 frame as well...I'd have to ask you guys for some help what headset and fork type to get with that. The claimed weight for the frame in my size is the same as the QS3.

Can you clarify the bolded statement? You're saying you want a more aggressive position, but the Allez feels a little long. Do you mean reach is too long and saddle to bar drop needs to be greater?

 

[cru_jones]

Can you clarify the bolded statement? You're saying you want a more aggressive position, but the Allez feels a little long. Do you mean reach is too long and saddle to bar drop needs to be greater?

I'm really not 100% sure (if it's not arleady obvious). But I think I want something a little bit shorter since I have a fairly short upper torso. I've been trying to identify how much drop I need in the front as well.

 

[cru_jones]

The Soul Trinity isn't BB30. In the 2nd picture, if you look very closely, you can see the external BB cup.

Thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure...but it wasn't obvious to me.

 

[PJ352]

I'm really not 100% sure (if it's not arleady obvious). But I think I want something a little bit shorter since I have a fairly short upper torso. I've been trying to identify how much drop I need in the front as well.

Because seat tube angle affects reach, the Soul in a size #3 and the QS3 in a 50cm have the shortest reach, both being about .5 cm shorter than the Allez in a 52cm. The Soul in a size #4 has about a .5cm longer reach than your Allez.

You mentioned the Soul in a size #2, but considering your Allez fits fairly well (and comparing its geo to the #2 Soul) I think that bike would be too small for you.

The reason I asked about saddle to bar drop is that (of the bikes in question) the HT lengths range from 110mm's to 130mm's - the Soul in a #3 being the shortest, and the #4 the longest. All else being equal (stem angle, spacers, headset stack height) the Soul #4 will be least aggressive saddle to bar drop, but I think the reach may be too long for you.

 

[cru_jones]

Because seat tube angle affects reach, the Soul in a size #3 and the QS3 in a 50cm have the shortest reach, both being about .5 cm shorter than the Allez in a 52cm. The Soul in a size #4 has about a .5cm longer reach than your Allez.

You mentioned the Soul in a size #2, but considering your Allez fits fairly well (and comparing its geo to the #2 Soul) I think that bike would be too small for you.

The reason I asked about saddle to bar drop is that (of the bikes in question) the HT lengths range from 110mm's to 130mm's - the Soul in a #3 being the shortest, and the #4 the longest. All else being equal (stem angle, spacers, headset stack height) the Soul #4 will be least aggressive saddle to bar drop, but I think the reach may be too long for you.

Guys like you are the ones that us newbies can learn from. I was also planning to print out the geo charts and ask around at my next group ride.

I was pretty sure the 4 was too long, and the 3 is only 2cm shorter than my Allez. The Soul looks racy enough for me, and the std BB would mean I could put the money saved towards a nicer set of wheels that I should see more benefit from than a new crank. Just not sure about the warranty thing. I know a warranty is only as good as the honerer, and I can't say that they would or not be any better to work with than PF. Don't really see any reviews or posts about either the Trinity or the QS3, but I have seena quite a few posts about Pedal Force being fine to buy from.

 

[milkbaby]

The Soul Trinity isn't BB30. In the 2nd picture, if you look very closely, you can see the external BB cup.

That doesn't necessarily mean the BB shell is not BB30 spec'd because Shimano doesn't make BB30 cranks. It could have an adaptor for the external bearing cups for the Ultegra cranks. Might want to e-mail them to verify...