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Just read this at lunch! Does not bode well for any vision of a clean sport. I sure hope WADA has some BA tests hidden up their sleeves but I'm not going to bet the house on it.

I know, the cheaters will always be ones step ahead of the testers. It sucks but I'm beginning to thing this is going to be true for some time to come.

I personally have viewed any stunning or unexpected result through the same self-imposed, cheater filter that always forces me to include the (internal) caveat, "If he/she's clean...". I feel this way about Peter Stetina, Peter Sagan, Taylor Phinney and any new, successful rider. It's sad but I think that's where we're at with racing today.
Seeing Liquigas ride so strongly this Spring made me wonder the same thing.
 

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Rex Hunter said:
I wouldn't advise people to get carried away with this. The amount of EPO we are talking about here is very small and will just aid the athlete a little bit during the off season. It's probably more of a psychological boost than anything else.
Evidently you missed this bit.
Working with sports medicine doctors, cyclists discovered that carefully controlled, small doses of EPO eluded the urine test while still raising their red cell count. Rather than using the hormone to create high-octane blood effectively, microdoses of EPO let athletes put in superhuman hours of training without suffering the natural consequence of fatigue.
 

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And microdoses of EPO during a race would have the same effect (reducing fatigue) - though it's more risky. It allows a rider to put in a strong kick or two on, for example, a mountain top finish - while other riders are only able to respond by upping their tempo a bit.
 

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Rex Hunter said:
To the lay man all training hours are super human for pro cycling. Like I said, if true this is just helping them a little in the off season with training. I wouldn't over state its impact.
Hard to say. It clearly doesn't look like riders are having the wild swings in form they use to have but is it enough to make an also ran a podium contender?

We know that as the sport is transitioning to being cleaner guys who were still full-bore have been winning a lot (and getting caught). Hard to say if the mind set is still "as long as you don't get caught, it isn't cheating" or if there really has been a cultural shift where riders are unwilling to dope. Look at the Giro, lots of known dopers at the sharp end.
 

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Rex Hunter said:
To the lay man all training hours are super human for pro cycling. Like I said, if true this is just helping them a little in the off season with training. I wouldn't over state its impact.
I wouldn't understate it either. A very small improvements lead to big results at that level.
 

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MarshallH1987 said:
Mostly because vitamins and electrolytes can be found in food as part of a normal diet. But that is a very good question. Caffeine is a stimulant and very powerful performance boosting substance, is drinking coffee doping?
mostly because EPO is an a doping list and salts are not :thumbsup: :idea:
 

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sokudo said:
Why is a micro-dose of EPO doping but vitamins or electrolytes are not?
For the most part taking more vitamins doesn't do anything for you, only if you have a deficiency do you have a problem.

A similar arguement that by taking the various hormones (EPO, testosterone, growth hormone, etc.) all riders are doing is maintaining normal levels or their "health" has been made. Afterall, the stress of a 3 week grand tour should cause most riders to "deteriorate" (e.g. look at Lance's blood parameters from the Giro vs. from the Tour last year).

On the other hand many dopers take supraphysiologic levels or hormone-derivatives that don't even exist naturally (e.g. most anabolic steriods) and drive their physiology to a place it could never exist at a natural level (e.g. high hematocrits, the muscle mass/strength of some weightlifters).
 

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Next they'll figure out a way to make altitude tents illegal.

WADA is on a witch hunt and it's giving cycling a worse image daily...

It's logical that microdoses would work and be less detectable than large doses. I'm not surprised by this at all.
 

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MarshallH1987 said:
Mostly because vitamins and electrolytes can be found in food as part of a normal diet. But that is a very good question. Caffeine is a stimulant and very powerful performance boosting substance, is drinking coffee doping?
Not any more- I think for a while they limited the amount of caffeine you could have in you, but that got dropped.
 

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ZoSoSwiM said:
Next they'll figure out a way to make altitude tents illegal.

WADA is on a witch hunt and it's giving cycling a worse image daily...

It's logical that microdoses would work and be less detectable than large doses. I'm not surprised by this at all.
Didn't France do this? Or was it another country? Or just a proposal- I remember reading about this somewhere and laughing at the stupidity of it.
 

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Rex Hunter said:
To the lay man all training hours are super human for pro cycling. Like I said, if true this is just helping them a little in the off season with training. I wouldn't over state its impact.

The point is that is a newer, more sophisticated approach to doping / cheating, which is banned / not permitted to any extent.
 

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Coolhand said:
Didn't France do this? Or was it another country? Or just a proposal- I remember reading about this somewhere and laughing at the stupidity of it.

I've often wondered of the logic / ethics of this too. given that the physiological effect of the hypoxic tents is for the body to increase its own production of EPO (which is of course a naturally produced hormone), in contract to more simply injecting the recombinantly produced version made by Amgen or Janssen Ortho Biotech. Bizarre eh?
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(Altitude tents are against the rules in Italy)

Based on the estimated watts per kg numbers coming from the Giro they are definitely not getting that much benefit from whatever they are doing at this point. Garzelli had a wide margin of victory on Corones and was still 1:00 slower than last year's passport failing winner.
 
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