[eric.radhik]

Hello all. Im new to the forum and I wanted to ask a question about the Cervelo R3. I got my fitting complete and I have at least about 500 miles on the bike but the one thing forums always say is to upgrade your wheels first... but which ones?

I am a "clydesdale" size (280 lbs) and biking is saving my life. I am asking for assistance in picking the right wheels. Everything is stock on the bike except for what the fitting person asked me to change (seat, seat post, stem, handlebars) but Im curious on a few wheel questions:
1. Is there any 25mm tires that fit on the R3? Ive always heard they will be too tight of a fit.
2. My size should get 28 spoke front and 32 spoke rear? Or just both 32 spoke?
3. Suggestions for quality wheels? Zipps? Mavics? My budget can actually go up to $1500+. I just really want to get out there and ride without concern that someday if I ever try to go past the 50mile mark on one ride.. a spoke or wheel can break.
4. Custom wheels? Im still trying to figure this out but any suggestions there?

 

[Mike T.]

...........the one thing forums always say is to upgrade your wheels first.

Hmmm I dunno about that. If any upgrades are needed they should first be to improve fit and comfort - in that order. After that, and this one can be also a big comfort improvement, upgrade the tires. Changing wheels, IMO, should be done to tailor the specs of the wheel to suit your weight, roads ridden and riding style (do you road race or tour ~ two contrasting uses. Most of us ride recreationally)

I am a "clydesdale" size (280 lbs) .......I am asking for assistance in picking the right wheels. Everything is stock on the bike except for what the fitting person asked me to change (seat, seat post, stem, handlebars) but Im curious on a few wheel questions:
1. Is there any 25mm tires that fit on the R3? Ive always heard they will be too tight of a fit.

If 25mm tires won't fit on your bike then you have the wrong bike for you. Bike choice should also be tailored to firstly your budget, then your riding needs (tour? race?) and your weight. You need at the very least 25mm tires and IMO even bigger tires (true 28mm {lots aren't} or 32mm tires). If a bike shop sold you a bike that only takes 23mm tires they should be whipped. I don't know if an R3 will only take 23's.

2. My size should get 28 spoke front and 32 spoke rear? Or just both 32 spoke?

At 280lbs you should be on 36 spoke wheels - 32/36 or 36/36. At the very least 32/32. See what BWW suggests for 236lbs+ -
Road 236+

If you can spend $1500 then look at these with the "Performance" spoke option (DT Comps; the "Strength" option are DT Champ spokes - straight gauge), the DuraAce hub option and of course, brass nipples.
DT SWISS RR585 + Shimano hubs
They work out at $724.

3. Suggestions for quality wheels? Zipps? Mavics? My budget can actually go up to $1500+. I just really want to get out there and ride without concern that someday if I ever try to go past the 50mile mark on one ride.. a spoke or wheel can break.

Most (all?) factory boutique wheels have very few spokes. You need lots of spokes. They almost all have proprietary parts too - meaning they are very expensive and hard to get and lots of times need the wheels to be returned to the factory. Beware. There is no magical quality about those wheels.

4. Custom wheels? Im still trying to figure this out but any suggestions there?

Make damn sure that are tailored to your needs and weight. There's no point shooting for 1400 gram wheels if you're not in line for being your state road race champion. You need lots of durability.

 

[arkitect]

eric, I have a 2011 R3 and have used 25 mm tires without any clearance issues (Continental 4000s). I also have a set of Zipp 303's that are wide rims, and a set of 25mm tubulars. No problems

 

[changingleaf]

I custom built wheel that is built for your weight will last longer and be more reliable than a factory wheelset. The strength of the rim will somewhat determine the number of spokes necessary. There are a number of excellent choices that will work great for you.

 

[tednugent]

Hello all. Im new to the forum and I wanted to ask a question about the Cervelo R3. I got my fitting complete and I have at least about 500 miles on the bike but the one thing forums always say is to upgrade your wheels first... but which ones?

I am a "clydesdale" size (280 lbs) and biking is saving my life. I am asking for assistance in picking the right wheels. Everything is stock on the bike except for what the fitting person asked me to change (seat, seat post, stem, handlebars) but Im curious on a few wheel questions:
1. Is there any 25mm tires that fit on the R3? Ive always heard they will be too tight of a fit.
2. My size should get 28 spoke front and 32 spoke rear? Or just both 32 spoke?
3. Suggestions for quality wheels? Zipps? Mavics? My budget can actually go up to $1500+. I just really want to get out there and ride without concern that someday if I ever try to go past the 50mile mark on one ride.. a spoke or wheel can break.
4. Custom wheels? Im still trying to figure this out but any suggestions there?

I would go with #4.

To mirror others somewhat... I would lean to a 36 (rear) & 32 (front) spoked wheelset (I rather lean towards having a nice safety margin)

Lots of choices in hubs.... Ultegra hubs are decent and a lot of people recommend White Industries T11

Spokes: the safe choice would be straight gauged 2.0mm (14 gauge) spoke, like a DT Champion or equivalent.

Nipples: Brass are heavier but reliable, not much in terms of choice of bling colors, like you would get with aluminum alloy nipples... But still an option (aluminum is lighter and costs more)

Rims... that's a big question because there are a lot of choices to choose from.

If you have a good LBS... talk to them.

another option to consider:
Bicycle Wheel Warehouse Road 236+

 

[eric.radhik]

Thank you all for your replies so far. I do realize that Im just the "noob" bike rider who is looking for the "golden answer" but since there are so many options... im just confused on the appropriate choices.

To answer a few questions...
1. I do live in a hilly area of SoCal OC and my only goal is to do charity century rides in the future. I used to do walks/runs but the military blew out my knee and biking is my only option.
2. Im not really worried about being a big guy weight weannie.. so I dont need any blingy wheels. Maybe someday but today will just to get me to that point! So, I appreciate the info on the "factory boutique" comment because it puts things in perspective.
3. I actually did speak to my LBS and he is the one who pointed me to the Mavics and Zipps. In which, I learned that spoke count is more important but those wheel sets were only 16 and 20 spoke options. So, I kinda lost trust on the LBS guy. I get everyone wants to make a buck but why screw me over in the process?
4. I think Bicycle Wheel Warehouse is the place to look and I appreciate the links. That can give a lot of insight.

The question I do have is if there "IS" a difference in hubs. Lets say Ultegra hub versus Dura Ace hub? Is it the same thing but lighter, hence the ratio of weight versus price? Or is it actually a better/durable hub?

 

[tednugent]

I may be wrong... but Dura Ace is lighter due to having a hollow aluminum axle & titanium freehub body.

and... I forget the differences between 105 and Ultegra, other than the Ultegra being lighter.

LBS side of things... I would have thought they would push for building wheels in-house, since I'm guessing they can make a slightly higher profit margin... they gotta charge you labor for building the wheels (unless they don't have much experience/confidence in themselves).

But... BWW is in Orange County also, iirc, in Huntington Beach (my parents live in OC also, near Huntington Beach).... so at least you're still supporting a local business

 

[Jay Strongbow]

The question I do have is if there "IS" a difference in hubs. Lets say Ultegra hub versus Dura Ace hub? Is it the same thing but lighter, hence the ratio of weight versus price? Or is it actually a better/durable hub?

Yes and no. There definitely is a difference other than weight. The DA ones use better quality materials and many many thousands of miles later that may mean they last longer.
However when riding them, there really is no difference in functionality.

It's kind of like comparing a Patek Phillepe watch to a run of the mill Seiko. It's clear the Patek is 'better' to anyone who knows watches and takes them apart and looks but if they both say it's 2:15pm when it's 2:15pm it really doesn't matter much that one is technically better.

 

[Mike T.]

Thank you all for your replies so far. I do realize that Im just the "noob" bike rider who is looking for the "golden answer" but since there are so many options... im just confused on the appropriate choices.

To answer a few questions...
1. I do live in a hilly area of SoCal OC and my only goal is to do charity century rides in the future. I used to do walks/runs but the military blew out my knee and biking is my only option.
2. Im not really worried about being a big guy weight weannie.. so I dont need any blingy wheels. Maybe someday but today will just to get me to that point! So, I appreciate the info on the "factory boutique" comment because it puts things in perspective.
3. I actually did speak to my LBS and he is the one who pointed me to the Mavics and Zipps. In which, I learned that spoke count is more important but those wheel sets were only 16 and 20 spoke options. So, I kinda lost trust on the LBS guy. I get everyone wants to make a buck but why screw me over in the process?
4. I think Bicycle Wheel Warehouse is the place to look and I appreciate the links. That can give a lot of insight.

The question I do have is if there "IS" a difference in hubs. Lets say Ultegra hub versus Dura Ace hub? Is it the same thing but lighter, hence the ratio of weight versus price? Or is it actually a better/durable hub?

As the owner of both Ultegra hubs and DuraAce - sure Ultegra are fine hubs but they are just "standard" hubs - steel axles, steel cassette carrier. The DuraAce are a whole other league - large diameter aluminum axles and a titanium cassette carrier - the identation-proof of steel with the lightness of aluminum. Plus the DuraAce just look more expensive with their pearly finish.
I can't imagine a dealer offering 16/20 spokes for your weight. Wheels don't come with any less spokes so if they're ok for you, what should 110lb people use? Break one of those spokes and you will have to carry your bike as the wheel won't turn in the frame or fork.

They suggest these wheels because they are a large profit margin plus they don't have to employ a wheelbuilder or offer their own shop warranty. Win-win eh? Run, don't walk away from those wheels.

Go with butted spokes and not straight gauge. The thinner center section of the butted spokes helps absorb spoke loading shock. Straight gauge transfer it all to the elbow - the place where most spokes break if they're going to. And brass nipples are the nipples for you. A few grams saved won't help you one iota.

Edit - DA will probably have better finished bearing surfaces and they certainly are lighter.

 

[tednugent]

I wonder why BWW goes with a straight gauged spoke then for their "Strength" build type?

luckily with my LBS.... one of the techs AND the store manager are both wheel builders....

 

[Mike T.]

I wonder why BWW goes with a straight gauged spoke then for their "Strength" build type?

You'd have to ask them. IMO spokes don't need to be stronger in the middle as they almost never break there unless they have suffered trauma. I'm no scientist but I think straight gauge build a stiffer wheel. I just don't like more shock-loading at the bend - the point of most breakages. Straight gauge are best, IMO, if cost-saving is a big issue.

 

[GRAVELBIKE]

First, fit the largest tires your frame/fork/brakes will accommodate. That alone will give you more traction, a better ride, and more "protection" for your wheels.

Wheel-wise, get something that uses standard components, and is built by someone who knows what they're doing. Shimano hubs work well, and don't cost a fortune. Rim-wise, consider H+Son Archetype, Pacenti SL23, or Velocity A23 in 32/32. Spokes should be double-butted with brass nipples. Again, the builder is as important as the parts.

 

[eric.radhik]

I made an inquiry for the DTSwiss RR585 with shimano hubs at BWW website. They stated that they dont have that brand in 36 spoke count. So, they pointed me to the Pure Tour wheels for 36 spoke. Any clue about Pure Tour brand?

 

[Mike T.]

I made an inquiry for the DTSwiss RR585 with shimano hubs at BWW website. They stated that they dont have that brand in 36 spoke count. So, they pointed me to the Pure Tour wheels for 36 spoke. Any clue about Pure Tour brand?

Their whole housebrand of Pure rims are good. I have their Pure Race and they have been perfect for three years. Did you ask them what their recommendations are for spoke numbers and rims for your weight? They are very conservative with spoke numbers and I saw they only went to 32h on that RR585 rim. But it's 30mm deep and rim depth gives lots of wheel rigidity so it's probably fine with 32 spokes for your weight.

The Pure Tour is a 30mm deep 570g rim and the DT RR585 is 585g so they are quite similar. And of course they offer 36h in their Pure Tour.

 

[spookyload]

If 25mm tires won't fit on your bike then you have the wrong bike for you. Bike choice should also be tailored to firstly your budget, then your riding needs (tour? race?) and your weight. You need at the very least 25mm tires and IMO even bigger tires (true 28mm {lots aren't} or 32mm tires). If a bike shop sold you a bike that only takes 23mm tires they should be whipped. I don't know if an R3 will only take 23's.

This is a first. You are telling him not only that factory wheels are the devil, you are telling him he is riding the wrong bike. I love the wheel forum. Next time he should ask for the fat boy tire bikes? Not sure if Cervelo has that model.

 

[eric.radhik]

Yes I did ask them and they recommended 36 spokes. Im just a bit confused on the rims versus spokes issue. Majority of rims are all under <32 spokes except for the few house brand rims. Should I still look for 36 or go down to 32 if the rim depth is increased? Very confusing tbh...

(Question... in terms of rim depth... are we talking about how "tall" the rim is? for example, zipp 101 compared to zipp 808 or are we talking about something different?)

 

[Don4]

Eric --

I have two bikes, a 1983 Trek 560 (steel, 22 lbs) and a 2011 Felt F3 (crabon fiber, 16.5 lbs).

Both bikes are equipped with custom wheels, 32 spoke 3x, front and rear. Both sets of wheels use DT Swiss RR465 rims.

One set was custom built for me by Joe Young, who spec'd them for me after discussing things like my weight (260 lbs at the time), the bike they were intended for, my style of riding, etc.

View attachment 282013

That set was built with the aforementioned rims, DT Swiss 240S hubs, and DT Swiss Super Comp (triple butted) spokes. Joe did recommend that I put 25 mm tires on theses rims due to my weight, and I have (Continental 4000S), and like them, but initially mounted Serfas Seca RS tires in 23 mm. They were fine too, although I can run lower pressures and get a better ride with the 25's. This wheel set is mounted on my Felt, and has held up well for the past 3 years. Cost from Joe was about $725 delivered in fall of 2010. Highly recommended. :thumbsup:

Joe Young Wheels: http://www.youngwheels.com/

My other set, mounted on my Campy equipped Trek, has the aforementioned RR465 rims, with Miche Racing Box Hubs (again, 32h), and have a DT Swiss Revolution spokes on the front and DT Swiss Competition on the rear.

I built these myself, under the watchful eye of PlatyPius @ Covered Bridge Cyclery (he's here on RBR). They have held up well and are just as nice to ride as my Joe Young set. Cost to me was about $450 in fall of 2011. I also run the Conti 4000S, 25 mm, on these. Building your own wheels is also highly recommended!

View attachment 282014

If you are so inclined, you can read about my adventure in wheel building here: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=268698

By the way, I very nearly bought a Cervelo R3 when I picked up my Felt. It was a close call, I liked the R3 very much. If you are enjoying riding it, you bought the right bike.

Also: I'm currently down to 211 lbs, and I would still build, or have built, these same wheels. Good, solid, conservative design, great ride, and at least for the set Joe built for me (all DT Swiss) reasonably light.

-- Don4

 

[spookyload]

Someone Rep this guy since I can't. Great advice.

 

[dcgriz]

Yes I did ask them and they recommended 36 spokes. Im just a bit confused on the rims versus spokes issue. Majority of rims are all under <32 spokes except for the few house brand rims. Should I still look for 36 or go down to 32 if the rim depth is increased? Very confusing tbh...

(Question... in terms of rim depth... are we talking about how "tall" the rim is? for example, zipp 101 compared to zipp 808 or are we talking about something different?)

The majority of racing type rims are up to 32 spokes because marketing has made the non-racers who buy racing type products believe that less is more. Trekking style rims are typically available at 36 drillings.

DT Swiss RR540 is a 36 spoke trekking rim that is also 23+mm wide. The extra rim width is a good thing for several reasons, one being it will make a better base for a 25mm tire.

Your question whether a deeper rim can afford lesser number of spokes is a tough one to answer without caveats. Generally a deeper profile rim will afford a lesser spoke count but (at the low spoke count) will not allow the same reliability as the higher spoke count wheel. In other words, at 280 lbs, if you happen to brake a spoke or two out of the 32, chances are you may need to call home to have you picked up. With the 36 spokes, you may be able to ride home.

My suggestions to you on the DT Swiss line would be either the RR585 (deeper and skinnier) or the RR540 (shallower and wider), Ultegra 6700 hubs, triple butted spokes like Sapim Force and brass nipples.

 

[Sylint]

I'm 250-260 and I'm riding on HED c2 32x3. I've taken them off curbs, hit potholes, etc and never gone even the slightest bit out of true. I really don't think you NEED 36 on the rear, it's just people being over-cautious.


I'd really look at the C2's. I have mine laced to Chris King r45 hubs.


*the stem cap and washer are now gone, that was right after I got em back from the LBS build up*

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