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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Am newb. Bought a new wheelset off EBay - machine built Archetype 32h - I weigh 230lbs - this is after one 15mi ride:

https://vimeo.com/159097465

I'm wondering as a newb if this is pretty much what you have to accept when ordering machine built off the internet? Or is this something I should return?

Their website said I'd need to make some fine-tuning after a few rides - but to have a wobble this big after one 15mi ride...
 

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Am newb. Bought a new wheelset off EBay - machine built Archetype 32h - I weigh 230lbs - this is after one 15mi ride.

I'm wondering as a newb if this is pretty much what you have to accept when ordering machine built off the internet? Or is this something I should return?

Their website said I'd need to make some fine-tuning after a few rides - but to have a wobble this big after one 15mi ride...
You just didn't choose the seller well. Machine built wheels can be ok but it can be a fair comment to say that there probably will be more bad machine built wheels than hand built ones. But, there are lots of not-so-good hand built ones too - especially from those who say their wheels will need some form of adjustment after riding. They probably know from experience that they will. Read my site; you will learn lots.
 

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Take that wheel to an LBS that has a wheelbuilder. Have them check the tension and true. If no good, send it back. That is quite a bit of lateral movement.
 

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If you return them do so for a full refund not to have them fixed. It'll cost you more, or close to it, to return them then to have it taken care of locally and do you really want the company that sold you wheels that come out of true so easy doing work on them?
Make sure you find someone who knows what they are doing to fix them though if you go that route. Many LBS's are clueless. Again though, it's no big deal. Wheels come out of true (though shouldn't with ordinary riding) and it's any easy fix.
 

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Who is the vendor for those wheels? That is quite a lateral wobble. Definitely not normal or acceptable. A sign of poor workmanship. I am guessing not adequately stress relieved or tensions weren't equalized. Well built wheels should not require "fine tuning" after a few rides. I have owned machine built wheels that didn't require any re-truing for over 4,000 miles.

Probably not worth returning when you consider shipping costs and hassle. It would be cheaper to just take them to your LBS and have them correct any problems.

Disclaimer: I am a n00bie wheelbuilder and have just completed my first wheel. While I was building, I don't think I ever had that much of a wobble once I had a reasonable amount of tension in the wheel. Mike T. above is an expert wheelbulder who has been doing this for decades. Read up on his website here: home wheelbuilding site . Even if you don't plan on learning to build your own wheels, this is an excellent read to learn more about bike wheels.

Listen to Mike T., DCGriz and November Dave who are all very experienced wheelbuilders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Who is the vendor for those wheels? That is quite a lateral wobble. Definitely not normal or acceptable. A sign of poor workmanship.
Thanks. I got them from Velomine. This is Velomine's response when I requested to return the wheels - is this pretty standard? He wants me to get the wheel trued and tensioned to spec - but there's no LBS around here that's actually going to re-tension this wheel. I know from experience - they just true it. I don't doubt that the Archetype is a stout rim - but to have a brand new wheel go that much out of true on the first ride seems pretty bad.

I watched the video, there shouldn’t be any problem getting that wheel trued & tensioned to spec. It can take up to 2 tensioning jobs before the spokes will remain in place – this I have found out from my own wheels that I build for myself.
The Archetype rim is incredibly strong. They are built with a sturdy design, are well-balanced & have the ability to hold true better than many other choices. I would recommend getting the wheels tensioned (not just trued) & stick with them. You would have a difficult time finding a better rim. We have a local friend who weighs 260 & rides 32h Mavic Open Pro-rimmed wheels on his road bike & has no problem with them (the Open Pro is a much lighter rim). He maintains his spoke tension regularly, though.
When you have the wheels tensioned, get this done with your tires installed and at the pressure you ride them – tire pressure can de-tension the wheel so it is best to have the tire in place to take this effect into the process.
 

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Thanks. I got them from Velomine. This is Velomine's response when I requested to return the wheels - is this pretty standard? He wants me to get the wheel trued and tensioned to spec - but there's no LBS around here that's actually going to re-tension this wheel. I know from experience - they just true it. I don't doubt that the Archetype is a stout rim - but to have a brand new wheel go that much out of true on the first ride seems pretty bad.

I watched the video, there shouldn’t be any problem getting that wheel trued & tensioned to spec. It can take up to 2 tensioning jobs before the spokes will remain in place – this I have found out from my own wheels that I build for myself.
The Archetype rim is incredibly strong. They are built with a sturdy design, are well-balanced & have the ability to hold true better than many other choices. I would recommend getting the wheels tensioned (not just trued) & stick with them. You would have a difficult time finding a better rim. We have a local friend who weighs 260 & rides 32h Mavic Open Pro-rimmed wheels on his road bike & has no problem with them (the Open Pro is a much lighter rim). He maintains his spoke tension regularly, though.
When you have the wheels tensioned, get this done with your tires installed and at the pressure you ride them – tire pressure can de-tension the wheel so it is best to have the tire in place to take this effect into the process.

I was eyeing a wheelset on Velomine awhile back. Customer experience was mixed so I passed. Sorry that you got stung.

The good thing is that the wheels themselves are good, it's just a bad build job. It's too bad you don't have an LBS near you. You may have to travel if you want to make that wheelset usable.

Or learn to build (re-build) your own. Hey, just 6 months ago, I had absolutely no intentions of learning to build wheels. Thanks to Mike T. and DCGriz' encouragement, I decided to take the plunge. I just finished my first wheel. Now keep in mind that this requires plenty of time and patience. So if you're the really impatient type, this may not be for you. But it is very gratifying and rewarding once you see how such fragile components can be put together to make something so incredibly strong.

Read Mike T.'s page and Sheldon Brown's page on wheelbuilding. Then buy the e-book "Professional Guide to Wheelbuilding" by Roger Musson. With purchase, you get lifetime free updates to his book. "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt is also quite good as well as Bill Mould's DVD "Master Wheelbuilding".
 

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Thanks. I got them from Velomine. This is Velomine's response when I requested to return the wheels - is this pretty standard? He wants me to get the wheel trued and tensioned to spec - but there's no LBS around here that's actually going to re-tension this wheel. I know from experience - they just true it. I don't doubt that the Archetype is a stout rim - but to have a brand new wheel go that much out of true on the first ride seems pretty bad.

I watched the video, there shouldn’t be any problem getting that wheel trued & tensioned to spec. It can take up to 2 tensioning jobs before the spokes will remain in place – this I have found out from my own wheels that I build for myself.
The Archetype rim is incredibly strong. They are built with a sturdy design, are well-balanced & have the ability to hold true better than many other choices. I would recommend getting the wheels tensioned (not just trued) & stick with them. You would have a difficult time finding a better rim. We have a local friend who weighs 260 & rides 32h Mavic Open Pro-rimmed wheels on his road bike & has no problem with them (the Open Pro is a much lighter rim). He maintains his spoke tension regularly, though.
When you have the wheels tensioned, get this done with your tires installed and at the pressure you ride them – tire pressure can de-tension the wheel so it is best to have the tire in place to take this effect into the process.

I am posting this to emphasize that if the wheel has not been adequately stress relieved and suffers from unequal spoke tensions, truing will only provide a pseudo solution while the wheel remains on the stand. As soon as you go out on another ride, the un-truing will return as spokes attempt to self-equalize their tension. Re-truing the wheel again will continue a vicious cycle when attempts to true the wheel cause spoke tensions to go further apart and the cycle to repeat until something breaks.

The only real solution is to retension the entire wheel, stress relieve it and repeat as needed until all spokes are roughly under the same tension and the wheel runs true. However, here lays the challenge, because finding a wheelbuilder to rebuild a brand new wheel built by somebody else, using the same existing components, is not something usually favored by wheelbuilders.

You did not indicate what spokes they used to build your wheel. If they used straight gauge instead of double butted (14/15/14 ga.) spokes you may have a small excuse to justify to yourself the cost of rebuilding the wheel and give the new builder an added incentive. Again, small excuse at best considering it is a brand new wheel. Preferably, you will find a builder to rebuild these wheels using the same components.

The take-home message for n00bs is that a properly built wheel should not make pinging noises when first ridden or come out of true after the first few rides. If it does, is of poor built quality.
If the builder tells you it is normal for the wheel to do so when first ridden, find another builder. Plain and simple.
 

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Just get a spoke tension tool and re-tension/align the wheel yourself. It will only take about an hour and should last a long time. You'll actually learn something from the experience.
Don't buy another wheel from them, are you crazy?
 

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I am posting this to emphasize that if the wheel has not been adequately stress relieved and suffers from unequal spoke tensions, truing will only provide a pseudo solution while the wheel remains on the stand. As soon as you go out on another ride, the un-truing will return as spokes attempt to self-equalize their tension. Re-truing the wheel again will continue a vicious cycle when attempts to true the wheel cause spoke tensions to go further apart and the cycle to repeat until something breaks.

The only real solution is to retension the entire wheel, stress relieve it and repeat as needed until all spokes are roughly under the same tension and the wheel runs true. However, here lays the challenge, because finding a wheelbuilder to rebuild a brand new wheel built by somebody else, using the same existing components, is not something usually favored by wheelbuilders.

You did not indicate what spokes they used to build your wheel. If they used straight gauge instead of double butted (14/15/14 ga.) spokes you may have a small excuse to justify to yourself the cost of rebuilding the wheel and give the new builder an added incentive. Again, small excuse at best considering it is a brand new wheel. Preferably, you will find a builder to rebuild these wheels using the same components.

The take-home message for n00bs is that a properly built wheel should not make pinging noises when first ridden or come out of true after the first few rides. If it does, is of poor built quality.
If the builder tells you it is normal for the wheel to do so when first ridden, find another builder. Plain and simple.
^^This^^Wheel Noobs read this^^. Let me relate an anecdote that illustrates the extreme outcome of this problem. Years ago myself and two buddies were training on a mountain bike race circuit for an upcoming race. On the drive to the circuit one of my buddies bragged that he had replaced his rear rim (his first effort) the day before and he was very pleased with himself.

We rode one lap of the circuit (maybe 5 miles around). As we passed the chalet at the bottom of the ski hill he complained that his rear wheel felt weird and could we stop. On inspection, we found that all his nipples had loosened off and the wheel was a floppy mess. The other buddy and I were wheelbuilders and one of us had a spoke wrench so in maybe 15 minutes the wheel was good enough and we completed the training ride.

I knew what had caused the wheel to loosen. When I asked my buddy if he had "stress relieved the wheel", his response was "Huh?"

Of course he had done nothing but tighten and true the wheel and I'll be that he didn't apply enough tension anyway. So when everything bedded in and the twisted spokes unwound, along with poor over-all tension, there wasn't enough pressure in the spoke threads to stop the nipples from unscrewing.

His wheel was an extreme example of what the OP experienced here. If we had plucked the OP's spokes we'd probably find (at least) one of the spokes was quite loose and floppy. This, of course, would allow the wheel to go out of true - the sure sign of a very poor build.
 

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Just get a spoke tension tool and re-tension/align the wheel yourself. It will only take about an hour and should last a long time. You'll actually learn something from the experience.
Don't buy another wheel from them, are you crazy?
I agree with the suggestion of fixing it yourself, but I would expect it to take a couple/few hours for a new wheel builder to completely retension and dish & true the wheel.

It still takes me at least an hour for this part of the build and that is after dozens of wheelsets and what I feel is a relatively streamline process now. (But I am not a pro.)

And of course, he should probably do this for both wheels; the other is sure to fail if built by same person/machine. It's a commitment in terms of both time and equipment. But very rewarding.
 

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It usually takes me 3 or 4 days, but I like to let it sit between tension relief's. But I'm not going to count the time I am watching tv.
 

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It usually takes me 3 or 4 days, but I like to let it sit between tension relief's. But I'm not going to count the time I am watching tv.

The lacing was straight forward and took me about 2 hours. The rest of the job - tensioning, truing, equalizing, stress relieving took the rest of the week or rather a couple of hours each evening. All together, probably around 12-14 hours. But hey, it was my first wheel EVER.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am posting this to emphasize that if the wheel has not been adequately stress relieved and suffers from unequal spoke tensions, truing will only provide a pseudo solution while the wheel remains on the stand. As soon as you go out on another ride, the un-truing will return as spokes attempt to self-equalize their tension. Re-truing the wheel again will continue a vicious cycle when attempts to true the wheel cause spoke tensions to go further apart and the cycle to repeat until something breaks.

The only real solution is to retension the entire wheel, stress relieve it and repeat as needed until all spokes are roughly under the same tension and the wheel runs true. However, here lays the challenge, because finding a wheelbuilder to rebuild a brand new wheel built by somebody else, using the same existing components, is not something usually favored by wheelbuilders.

You did not indicate what spokes they used to build your wheel. If they used straight gauge instead of double butted (14/15/14 ga.) spokes you may have a small excuse to justify to yourself the cost of rebuilding the wheel and give the new builder an added incentive. Again, small excuse at best considering it is a brand new wheel. Preferably, you will find a builder to rebuild these wheels using the same components.

The take-home message for n00bs is that a properly built wheel should not make pinging noises when first ridden or come out of true after the first few rides. If it does, is of poor built quality.
If the builder tells you it is normal for the wheel to do so when first ridden, find another builder. Plain and simple.
Good info here. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
His wheel was an extreme example of what the OP experienced here. If we had plucked the OP's spokes we'd probably find (at least) one of the spokes was quite loose and floppy. This, of course, would allow the wheel to go out of true - the sure sign of a very poor build.
Yes I'm such a noob - I didn't properly inspect spoke tension - three spoke are loose/floppy. Live and learn - thanks for the advice.

So does the wheel need a complete rebuild then if they refuse return? Or can I get away with re-tensioning like Velomine suggested, I'm a bit confused.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just get a spoke tension tool and re-tension/align the wheel yourself. It will only take about an hour and should last a long time. You'll actually learn something from the experience.
Don't buy another wheel from them, are you crazy?
Which tool do you recommed?
 

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Yes I'm such a noob - I didn't properly inspect spoke tension - three spoke are loose/floppy. Live and learn - thanks for the advice.

So does the wheel need a complete rebuild then if they refuse return? Or can I get away with re-tensioning like Velomine suggested, I'm a bit confused.
I would suggest you read my site then get Roger Musson's fine e-book (read it and my site 2x) and then fix the wheel yourself. This makes sure it's done right and there is no hassle of shipping PLUS, you're now 1/2 way to being a Wheelbuilder! Life presents golden opportunities sometimes. This is one of them. Trust me.
 

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I would suggest you read my site then get Roger Musson's fine e-book (read it and my site 2x) and then fix the wheel yourself. This makes sure it's done right and there is no hassle of shipping PLUS, you're now 1/2 way to being a Wheelbuilder! Life presents golden opportunities sometimes. This is one of them. Trust me.

^^^^Follow this advice^^^^

Floppy spokes after only one ride? After knowing this, I would NEVER trust Velomine to build, much less repair any wheel I'm ever going to ride.
 
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