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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

One of my bikes is a 60cm CAAD 7, I am finding I have the seat set all the way forward to get the plumb bob fall down the front of the knee to disect the pedal spindal. I have a 110mm stem. Would I be better off on a 63cm Cannondale?:confused:
 

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Burn baby, burn.
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Where a plumb bob falls has VERY LITTLE (perhaps no) bearing on whether your bike fits you or not. And having your saddle slammed all the way forward or back has about the same amount of bearing on whether your bike fits you or not. Basically fore and aft will impact on whether your quads or hamstrings are being more engaged. You want neither to be more engaged.

Go to Steve Hogg's blog and then read these posts, in this order:

Premise
Saddle height
Saddle set back

If you want to get fancy after that read:

Arch support
Wedging
Shimming
 

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Steaming piles of opinion
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Is the seat tube on the 63 steeper? I wouldn't expect so.

I hope this doesn't come across badly, but you may want to read up a bit on bike fit. from this question, it seems your knowledge is limited. No problems with that and no problems with asking questions to learn, but some pre-reading might make your questions more productive. Steve Hogg's website might be a good place to start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yes I have limited knowledge of bike fit, hence the question. Thanks for the links I had not seen them before and will read them. My knowledge of bike fit may be of the "older" generation when the plumb bob method I mentioned, sitting in the drops and seeing if the handle bars obscured the front hub etc was some of the methods used. It seems times, and methods have changed.
 

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Burn baby, burn.
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yes I have limited knowledge of bike fit, hence the question. Thanks for the links I had not seen them before and will read them. My knowledge of bike fit may be of the "older" generation when the plumb bob method I mentioned, sitting in the drops and seeing if the handle bars obscured the front hub etc was some of the methods used. It seems times, and methods have changed.
Yes, sorry but all of those methods mean very little IMO.
 

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IMO comfort is first and for most. If you are slammed all the way forward to make it comfortable then going to a bigger bike will only make it worse. I strongly recommend getting a professional fit. If you find someone that does a good job they will be able to find the small things that make the difference. Until then maybe try a zero degree set back post and a little shorter stem. I was running into the same problem on my 54cm Scott, I am 5'7" and the reach was a little long. I switched to a zero degree post and a 90cm stem and it made a world of difference. It put a lot less strain on my neck and I noticed full engagement of my legs.
 

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yes I have limited knowledge of bike fit, hence the question. Thanks for the links I had not seen them before and will read them. My knowledge of bike fit may be of the "older" generation when the plumb bob method I mentioned, sitting in the drops and seeing if the handle bars obscured the front hub etc was some of the methods used. It seems times, and methods have changed.
Even among 'experts', for every fit related viewpoint, there's an opposing one.

Here's a case in point:
How to Fit a Bicycle

Once there, scroll to The Fore-Aft Saddle Position.

Beyond that, while reading/ research has its place, as a first step I suggest seeking out a reputable fitter and having your sizing requirements assessed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I am 194cm. Thanks for the help from all, but as some have stated there is a lot of viewpoints/methods out there, what makes the Hogg method the right one? Same as someone said on here, don't take it the wrong way. But surely the older methods I have mentioned have some merit?
 

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Easier to ask you to explain how a plumb bob from your knee can work for every person?
That would mean that every person has identical thigh lengths in proportion to their pedal spindle wouldn't it?
To take it further that would mean that everyone is average wouldn't it?
And having your bars hide your hub would mean that all bikes are identical head tube angles and that all fork rates are the same.
Or that if you change your fork rake or head angle you need to change your stem length.
Hoggs methods work because they work.
He does not believe that we are all the same or that a plum bob or knee angle or elbow angle will work across the whole cycling community.
He believes that all of us are different and that as a result we all need different set ups that are tailored to the individual.
He is one of the very few fitters that offer a money back guarantee and is definitely one of the only fitters who is willing to put his methods on the public domain for you to use yourself. At worst it will cost your $20 a year and some parts like shims, wedges and insoles.
Try it and see for yourself.
Better than forking out a couple of hundred $ for a fit that does not work (like I did 3 times).
 

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I am 194cm. Thanks for the help from all, but as some have stated there is a lot of viewpoints/methods out there, what makes the Hogg method the right one? Same as someone said on here, don't take it the wrong way. But surely the older methods I have mentioned have some merit?
Hogg's methods are the right ones because they've worked for someone. If they didn't, the believer wouldn't be. They'd believe in what DID work for them.

Point is, we subscribe to what (at some level and for a variety of reasons) has worked for us. The 'experts' are no different, otherwise, they'd all agree. But they don't.

IMO/E bike fit is a lot more gray than black and white, so where cyclists tend to go astray is losing sight of the fact that, while there are best (or established) practices, what works for one (or even many) won't work for all. Thus, the variations of fit philosophies.

If you take the 'do it yourself' approach, my advice is to read/ research and (as best you can) based on your experience, pick a method or methods that may work for you. However, in all honesty, I suspect this may lead you nowhere fast, so I go back to you going back to square one and getting a sizing assessment from a knowledgeable fitter.

If sizing is wrong and/ or the bikes geo isn't right for your anatomy/ style of riding, no amount of tweaking will get you an optimal fit.
 

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If you take the 'do it yourself' approach, my advice is to read/ research and (as best you can) based on your experience, pick a method or methods that may work for you. However, in all honesty, I suspect this may lead you nowhere fast, so I go back to you going back to square one and getting a sizing assessment from a knowledgeable fitter.
Sorry to sound argumentative but my experience with fitters from Retul and Body Geometry have proven the opposite. I went to them, got fitted, noticed issues, pulled it all apart again and read Hogg's stuff.
It makes sense and is simple to apply.
That said it should not be too hard to get a bike shop to tell you the right size bike as a starting point. It is the saddle height, setback etc that is the tricky part.
 

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Sorry to sound argumentative but my experience with fitters from Retul and Body Geometry have proven the opposite. I went to them, got fitted, noticed issues, pulled it all apart again and read Hogg's stuff.
It makes sense and is simple to apply.
That said it should not be too hard to get a bike shop to tell you the right size bike as a starting point. It is the saddle height, setback etc that is the tricky part.
You aren't sounding argumentative. You're simply offering your viewpoints and experiences. But in doing so, you're proving my point - that what works for someone is what they believe in. Retul and Spec's BG FIT didn't work for you and Hogg's methods did, thus your believing in him. But the key point is that not all share your experiences.

BTW, my comments re: my opinion that the OP going it alone on fit may not serve him well are based on his earlier comments re: sizing/ fit. They aren't meant to apply to the more experienced (no offense, OP).
 

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I don't think that anyone has mentioned that the plumb bob test must be done with the bike sitting on a level surface. The end of the string is also supposed to be placed on the the boney protuberance below the kneecap. If the very front of the kneecap is used, then the reference point becomes the front of the crankarm, not the pedal spindle.

I'm not a subscriber to the KOP concept. I'm more aligned with the rider's weight being balanced over the saddle, as suggested by Peter White and Steve Hogg. For me, that moves the saddle about 2cm further back than KOP would dictate. If my saddle was further forward, I'd have too much weight on my hands. Some fitters "solve" that problem by raising the bar height. That's what I call the LBS fit - the saddle is too far forward and the saddle to bar drop is small. It works, but it's what I'd call a recreational fit.

I prefer a fit that's a lot closer to that of a pro rider - plenty of saddle setback and a lot of saddle to bar drop.
 
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