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Bike Mechanic’s 1st Circle of Hell

3705 Views 41 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Lombard, 3 mo ago

tinball

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Bicycle tire Wood Art Line Tints and shades

This is my first time working with integrated handlebars. It’s a frickin’ nightmare and I haven’t even gotten to the hydraulic lines yet.

I have re-pulled the di2 wires at least 8 times trying to make it work. There’s no way the wireless unit let alone a cable junction is going to fit in the stem or bars. I believe I’m going to need to get longer wires and stuff the wireless unit in the left bar end and the junction A in the right….

CX Wrench and other mechs, I have an even greater appreciation for your skills and knowledge than ever before….

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tlg

· #2 · 3 mo ago

Really not sure what all those wires are for or what you're tying to achieve.
The wireless unit doesn't need to go in the bars. Stick it in the seat tube connected to the battery with the 150mm cable.

You mentioned the Junction A. But that can't go inside. That's where you charge the system. It needs to be external.
But your picture shows a Junction B. That typically goes in the Bottom Bracket or Downtube.

Reactions: 1

DrSmile

· #3 · 3 mo ago

Yeah... no thanks bike industry. You're killing cycling one "innovation" at a time nowadays.

Reactions: 1

tlg

· #4 · 3 mo ago

DrSmile said:
Yeah... no thanks bike industry. You're killing cycling one "innovation" at a time nowadays.

It has absolutely nothing to do with 'bike industry innovation'.

It's seriously not that complicated.

DrSmile

· #5 · 3 mo ago

tlg said:
It has absolutely nothing to do with 'bike industry innovation'.

It's seriously not that complicated.

It's a single piece cockpit with integrated cabling. Neither is a good idea and makes things more complicated / expensive for no real appreciable gain, plus there are less adjustments possible. I can't fathom how you could consider it less complicated.

tlg

· #6 · 3 mo ago

DrSmile said:
It's a single piece cockpit with integrated cabling. Neither is a good idea and makes things more complicated / expensive for no real appreciable gain, plus there are less adjustments possible. I can't fathom how you could consider it less complicated.

I said it's "not that complicated". Because it's not. You never mentioned integrated bars. We weren't talking about integrated bars. This isn't an integrated bar issue.

But since you brought it up, yes di2 wires are less complicated to route in integrated bars. They're dirt simple.

duriel

· #7 · 3 mo ago

Why does he have a cable coming out the end of the bar on the left? I think that's his problem.

tlg

· #8 · 3 mo ago

duriel said:
Why does he have a cable coming out the end of the bar on the left? I think that's his problem.

Not if he's using a bar end junction. (Which makes the wiring even less complicated!)

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duriel

· #9 · 3 mo ago

What ever you do, do 'NOT' push that button. Super secret turbo MODE!

tinball

Discussion Starter · #10 · 3 mo ago

Haha. TLG, It's not that complicated but it kinda is.

Duriel - the wire sticking out was for the bar end junction that TLG showed.

I opted to move my Di2 11 speed to the new frame. The old Pinarello had the junction A in the downtube. I'm moving it to the the bar end. This frame has the integrated cockpit which is the root of the issue not that the Di2 wiring is in of itself complex. I was trying to make it work with my existing cables and I couldn't find any configuration that didn't involve buying more longer ones. The longest Y cable that Shimano makes is too short to connect both shifters and the junction A in the bar end. I ended up buying both 1m and 700mm cables to get it done - $75 extra I was hoping not to spend.

I wanted to keep the wireless junction in the bars for proximity to the head unit but that isn't happening right now - it's in the downtube. Now for about 5 hours I have been struggling pulling the hydraulic lines and have finally gotten them after removing all the Di2 wires first. Even then it was a struggle and I had to use a hex key to manipulate the lines to bend just enough to pull out the of the bars by the shifters.

A integrated cockpit now ranks in the "hopefully never again" for me. I felt like I needed 4 more hands just to deal with the Di2 wires and brake lines in the notches of the headset compression ring while still keeping the fork in place.

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cxwrench

· #11 · 3 mo ago

duriel said:
Why does he have a cable coming out the end of the bar on the left? I think that's his problem.

You should either keep up or stop posting here. Most of the time you have zero clue.

ETA: No, Di2 isn't really hard at all. As long as you have the right parts and wires it's pretty simple, doesn't really matter what you're installing it on. I guess doing it a bunch helps in that way.

tlg

· #12 · 3 mo ago

cxwrench said:
ETA: No, Di2 isn't really hard at all. As long as you have the right parts and wires it's pretty simple

Ding ding ding.
It's like trying to swap shift cables from one bike to another then complaining that they're too short but you don't want to buy longer cables and housing.

tlg

· #13 · 3 mo ago

tinball said:
Haha. TLG, It's not that complicated but it kinda is.

Duriel - the wire sticking out was for the bar end junction that TLG showed.

I opted to move my Di2 11 speed to the new frame. The old Pinarello had the junction A in the downtube. I'm moving it to the the bar end. This frame has the integrated cockpit which is the root of the issue not that the Di2 wiring is in of itself complex. I was trying to make it work with my existing cables and I couldn't find any configuration that didn't involve buying more longer ones. The longest Y cable that Shimano makes is too short to connect both shifters and the junction A in the bar end. I ended up buying both 1m and 700mm cables to get it done - $75 extra I was hoping not to spend.

I wanted to keep the wireless junction in the bars for proximity to the head unit but that isn't happening right now - it's in the downtube. Now for about 5 hours I have been struggling pulling the hydraulic lines and have finally gotten them after removing all the Di2 wires first. Even then it was a struggle and I had to use a hex key to manipulate the lines to bend just enough to pull out the of the bars by the shifters.

A integrated cockpit now ranks in the "hopefully never again" for me. I felt like I needed 4 more hands just to deal with the Di2 wires and brake lines in the notches of the headset compression ring while still keeping the fork in place.

You really just super over complicated it. You only need two Di2 wires in your bars. (Only one on the other side)
And there's no reason to put the wireless unit in there. It doesn't need to be close to the head unit.

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cxwrench

· #14 · 3 mo ago

^And it's just that easy...^

JSR

· #15 · 3 mo ago

tinball said:
I ended up buying both 1m and 700mm cables to get it done - $75 extra I was hoping not to spend.

Every time I get angry about the prices of these cables I reflect on the cabling system I designed as a product manager for high-zoom data communications equipment. Once the factory guys got done with the “burden” of keeping the parts in stock it quadrupled the cost.

Still, these cables are really expensive.

tinball

Discussion Starter · #16 · 3 mo ago

I did not know that you could use the shifter as a junction box. Thanks for that tidbit. Classic RTFM failure on my part. I knew there was a second plug but I thought it was just for satellite/remote shifters. I didn't come across an example of wiring that did show that as a possibility. I wish I had known that earlier since I probably could have used the wires I had on hand that way.

I actually managed to rework it with the y-cable and a longer extension cable with the wireless unit. Now it's just a possibility that the wireless unit may not come out of the handle bar as it's wedged a bit in the drop/curve. For clarification, From right to left: I have the Junction A, wire 1 runs through the bar/stem and out to the derailleurs/battery. The wire 2 (y cable) runs to the WU111 wireless unit, then to both shifters.

As CX alluded to, as with most things, the more you do it, the easier it becomes. It definitely was easier this last time as I've gotten used to manipulating the lines and wires internally and externally and using the cable puller tool. Still, it's slow, fiddly, and not "easy".

Major respect for you guys that do this every day.

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JSR

· #17 · 3 mo ago

fast forward to 22’ mark for witty caption re Di2 junction box placement.

Paceliner

· #18 · 3 mo ago

For those of you who like Di2/equivalents--more power to ya. Tinball's frustrations are the main reason I stick with simpler, time-tested components like mechanical shifting and rim brakes on my road bike: cheap to purchase, easy to install/repair, and proven to work for decades upon decades. As with everything, the more complicated/complex something is, the more that can go wrong. Not trying to start any trouble, just an observation.

duriel

· #19 · 3 mo ago

My Di2 is much simpler, buy the bike, ride it, done! I do have to charge it once every 3 months, it's really getting old doing that.

tlg

· #20 · 3 mo ago

Paceliner said:
For those of you who like Di2/equivalents--more power to ya. Tinball's frustrations are the main reason I stick with simpler, time-tested components like mechanical shifting and rim brakes on my road bike: cheap to purchase, easy to install/repair, and proven to work for decades upon decades. As with everything, the more complicated/complex something is, the more that can go wrong. Not trying to start any trouble, just an observation.

Except his frustrations were caused by not knowing what he was doing and shoehorning an improper solution.
There are decades of posts of people doing the exact same thing with mechanical drive trains. (and people STILL doing it)

I have three Di2 bikes. Tens of thousands of miles.
I've never adjusted a derailleur. Not once.
Never had a frayed or broken shift cable.
Never replaced a shift cable.
Never replaced shift housing.
Rarely have to replace bar tape.
Shifting is exactly the same as it was on Day #1

I've gone all Di2 because of... the simplicity. Is it more expensive? Yes. But well worth is for the maintenance savings.

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