[Lombard]

Previously I thought that #15 should have been 1st, but now I realize that this should should be The One True #1.

Well it looks like our friend Low Rider got the lead boot and his thread was closed:

You all would benefit from a lower top tube you just...

History 101 A sloping Top Tube has nothing to do with a cyclists legs. It is nothing more than manufacturers sizing bicycles like Tee shirts. Instead of offering frames in one, or two, centimeter size differences from the mid to low 40's to 62cm or larger, they can now make them in XS, S, M, L...

www.roadbikereview.com

Which is too bad because I was enjoying the laughs.

 

[Kerry Irons]

16) Always observe your thighs vis-à-vis your bike's top tube when riding, to make sure you are not hitting said top tube with the aforementioned thighs.

17) Physical reality and engineering principles should NEVER be invoked to challenge "feelings" and "belief."

 

[SPlKE]

17) Physical reality and engineering principles should NEVER be invoked to challenge "feelings" and "belief."

18) In cycling, every observation is 112% subjective and can be argued to infinity, except grams to weight weenies.

 

[Coolhand]

Well it looks like our friend Low Rider got the lead boot and his thread was closed:

You all would benefit from a lower top tube you just...

History 101 A sloping Top Tube has nothing to do with a cyclists legs. It is nothing more than manufacturers sizing bicycles like Tee shirts. Instead of offering frames in one, or two, centimeter size differences from the mid to low 40's to 62cm or larger, they can now make them in XS, S, M, L...

www.roadbikereview.com

Which is too bad because I was enjoying the laughs.

19. Returning banned trolls always return to what got them banned in the first pace.

 

[Lombard]

19. Returning banned trolls always return to what got them banned in the first pace.

And this is a myth? I thought this was reality.

So @Coolhand , can you tell us which past troll it was who resurrected himself as Low Rider?

 

[bvber]

can you tell us which past troll it was who resurrected himself as Low Rider?

Likely someone who wanted a g-rudge match... ?

 

[Lombard]

Likely someone who wanted a g-rudge match... ?

Rudge66? Low Rider's style was very similar!

 

[shrubs]

Not really a myth but seeing people ride with improperly adjusted seats. Especially younger riders.

 

[Jwiffle]

I agree with all except maybe number 2. Years ago, when I first started building wheels, I assumed greater tension would make a stiffer wheel, but I was informed by others it would not, and even Jobst Brandts' book stuff it would not.

Then, recently, I had an employee ask me to tighten the tension on his rear wheel on his mountain bike because it wasn't stiff enough and was flexing enough to rub the chainstay under hard cornering. I checked the wheel, and it was already at decent tension (like over 100 kgf), and told him adding tension wouldn't help the issue, but I added tension, anyway, up to close to 120 kgf. Well, that did indeed make the wheel stiffer such that it didn't flex enough for the tire to rub the stay.

So unless someone can explain that better, I'm now under the opinion that more tension CAN make a stiffer wheel, since actual experience has proven it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Lombard]

I agree with all except maybe number 2. Years ago, when I first started building wheels, I assumed greater tension would make a stiffer wheel, but I was informed by others it would not, and even Jobst Brandts' book stuff it would not.

Then, recently, I had an employee ask me to tighten the tension on his rear wheel on his mountain bike because it wasn't stiff enough and was flexing enough to rub the chainstay under hard cornering. I checked the wheel, and it was already at decent tension (like over 100 kgf), and told him adding tension wouldn't help the issue, but I added tension, anyway, up to close to 120 kgf. Well, that did indeed make the wheel stiffer such that it didn't flex enough for the tire to rub the stay.

So unless someone can explain that better, I'm now under the opinion that more tension CAN make a stiffer wheel, since actual experience has proven it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Are you saying you increased the DS tension from 100 to 120kgF? If your DS was only 100kgF, then more than likely your NDS tension was not sufficient - especially on an 11-speed freehub. Always check NDS tensions. Anything 50kgF or above on the NDS is sufficient.

 

[shrubs]

Bravo jwiffle. IMO myths need to be verified as myth or not.

 

[cxwrench]

I agree with all except maybe number 2. Years ago, when I first started building wheels, I assumed greater tension would make a stiffer wheel, but I was informed by others it would not, and even Jobst Brandts' book stuff it would not.

Then, recently, I had an employee ask me to tighten the tension on his rear wheel on his mountain bike because it wasn't stiff enough and was flexing enough to rub the chainstay under hard cornering. I checked the wheel, and it was already at decent tension (like over 100 kgf), and told him adding tension wouldn't help the issue, but I added tension, anyway, up to close to 120 kgf. Well, that did indeed make the wheel stiffer such that it didn't flex enough for the tire to rub the stay.

So unless someone can explain that better, I'm now under the opinion that more tension CAN make a stiffer wheel, since actual experience has proven it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It obviously depends on what type of stiffness you're talking about. If it's lateral then yes, more tension will keep the rim from moving side to side as much. Most people use 'stiffness' as a descriptor of vertical compliance or flex and that really won't change.

Are you saying you increased the DS tension from 100 to 120kgF? If your DS was only 100kgF, then more than likely your NDS tension was not sufficient - especially on an 11-speed freehub. Always check NDS tensions. Anything 50kgF or above on the NDS is sufficient.

I never do. You can't change it if the DS is at the specified tension and the rim is centered.

 

[Lombard]

It obviously depends on what type of stiffness you're talking about. If it's lateral then yes, more tension will keep the rim from moving side to side as much. Most people use 'stiffness' as a descriptor of vertical compliance or flex and that really won't change.

I never do. You can't change it if the DS is at the specified tension and the rim is centered.

A good quality rim can handle 120-130kgF of tension. That will land you around 55kgF on the NDS for an 11-speed freehub. And yes, I equalize in favor of the NDS to make sure there are no "slackers".

The only rims I know of that aren't rated for at least 120kgF are Mavic which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole anyway.

 

[cxwrench]

Oh, I dunno...the Open Pro has always been a pretty solid rim. I've probably built a least a couple hundred pair w/ Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace hubs. 32 hole, 293/295 rear, 295 front, 3x.

 

[Jwiffle]

It obviously depends on what type of stiffness you're talking about. If it's lateral then yes, more tension will keep the rim from moving side to side as much. Most people use 'stiffness' as a descriptor of vertical compliance or flex and that really won't change.

I never do. You can't change it if the DS is at the specified tension and the rim is centered.

Ah, that makes sense, and correlates to what I experienced.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Jwiffle]

Are you saying you increased the DS tension from 100 to 120kgF? If your DS was only 100kgF, then more than likely your NDS tension was not sufficient - especially on an 11-speed freehub. Always check NDS tensions. Anything 50kgF or above on the NDS is sufficient.

Single speed wheel, so although the NDS may have been a little lower, it wasn't much (i didn't actually measure the NDS, but it certainly felt close to the DS, certainly not half or less.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Lombard]

Oh, I dunno...the Open Pro has always been a pretty solid rim. I've probably built a least a couple hundred pair w/ Shimano Ultegra and Dura Ace hubs. 32 hole, 293/295 rear, 295 front, 3x.

IIRC, the Open Pro has a max tension of 90kgF? How can you possibly get enough tension on the NDS with DS tensions of only 90 or even 100 on a wheel with an 11-speed freehub?

 

[cxwrench]

IIRC, the Open Pro has a max tension of 90kgF? How can you possibly get enough tension on the NDS with DS tensions of only 90 or even 100 on a wheel with an 11-speed freehub?

First I said I have built...mostly in the past. 9 & 10 speed wheels mostly. That said I think the max is probably 110-120, I think I built them to around 110-115.

 

[Lombard]

First I said I have built...mostly in the past. 9 & 10 speed wheels mostly. That said I think the max is probably 110-120, I think I built them to around 110-115.

OK, on an 8-9-10 speed freehub, that changes the story as the tension disparity is less. Not sure where I saw the 90kgF spec on the Open Pro. Maybe on the newer one? Apparently you've built enough of these with good results. There are reports of spoke hole cracks, but those may have been low spoke count builds which I'm not a fan of anyway.

 

[tmoore]

That a newb should understand a fraction of this stuff. The thread is a learning experience though. Glad to be here, joined today.