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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What follows is a dialogue between BD an myself where I've asked for clarification on the "lifetime warranty" of the Motobecane Ti road frames.

I have posted the thread so the first post (original question) appears on top. You can read the dialogue that I had with them from top to bottom.

This follows a similar dialogue that I had last week asking about geometry and sizing of the LeChampoin Ti frames. Following the instructions in the FAQ on the BD web site:
Q: How do I know what size to get?
A: If you are unsure, drop us a line and we can help. Please include all the info you can... height, inseam length from the ground up in your cycling shoes, and the type/model of bike you are interested in. More info will always help (age, type of riding desired, past experiences, etc.) With the 100+ years of combined experience our staff have, sizing suggestions can be quite accurate however the final decision is up to you.


I was told that "bike size is a matter of personal preference" and referred back to the geometry chart on the web site. Useless information when someone is asking specific questions about a product in order to make an informed decision. Poor customer service if you can even call it service at all. I'm sorry - I must have missed the exit to the "100+ years of combined experience" getting that sizing suggestion.

I already own a Moto FlyTeam ($1700) and have been wanting a LeChampion SL Ti since I first spotted the bike several weeks ago. I have been looking for a way to get a few answers so I could buy the thing ever since.

What was the excitement at the prospect of getting a new roadbike a few short weeks ago is now frustration and disgust at being treated with such poor regard for asking for and expecting something slightly better than the reply you'd get from a kid flipping burgers.

I believe customers have a right to expect answers to reasonable questions of any business selling a product. No one should have to work this hard to spend another $2000! I'll bet my LBS would talk to me all day long about a geometry and fit of a bike or the warranty details of the 2nd most expensive roadbike they sell.

Business must be pretty good for BikesDirect. You don't feel like answering a couple of questions, so you send a returning customer packing. You just lost the best advertising you'll never pay for - a satisfied (well treated) customer.


-----Original Message-----
From: JohnJohn301
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 20 May 2008 9:22 am
Subject: Moto Ti Warranty
Can you please provide specific information regarding warranty on Motobecane Titanium frame?
Your web page says “The Motobecane Titanium frame has a lifetime warranty against defects”

What does this mean exactly? For example, if the frame cracks or breaks with no sign of abuse you will replace the frame?
As you are not a “brick and mortar” operation, how does one go about obtaining warranty in the event of a “defect”?

Thank you for your help.

John
Sacramento, CA.


________________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:05 AM
To: JohnJohn301
Subject: Re: Moto Ti Warranty


The Moto Ti frames are warrantied for life against any manufacturers defects.( cracks/breakage not do to abuse)
Any and all warranty issues are covered by bikes direct, contact [email protected] or [email protected]


________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: JohnJohn301
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 21 May 2008 8:52 pm
Subject: RE: Moto Ti Warranty
Again…
“Warrantied for life” What does this mean? What remedy can a buyer of a Motobecane Ti frame expect if a frame breaks or a weld gives?
Will you simply send a new frame?
Do you issue a credit toward another frame? Full price credit? Prorated?
Do you know? Do you make it up as you go along?

Is there some reason you are being so vague about this, or am I not being clear about what I’m asking or are you too busy or do you simply not give a sh*t?
What the h*ll?



________________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:24 AM
To: JohnJohn301
Subject: Re: Moto Ti Warranty

Well, I am sorry that the warranty is to difficult for you to understand, but there is no need to be vulgar, so please do not email us again we are not interested in your business.
 

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Priceless....

Wow, that is amazing!

Don't worry, someone will be along anytime now from BD to tell you how you screwed up the procedure, that they get tons of emails daily, and answer EVERYONE of them quickly!

Then others will come along and slam you for being negative about BD.

Thanks for sharing though! It was a great read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cfrone1 said:
Wow, that is amazing!

Don't worry, someone will be along anytime now from BD to tell you how you screwed up the procedure, that they get tons of emails daily, and answer EVERYONE of them quickly!

Then others will come along and slam you for being negative about BD.

Thanks for sharing though! It was a great read.
Cfrone1 -
I appreciate the feedback.
Not too worried about the grand slam that may be in store.
Aside from a little impatience on my part, I think the dialogue speaks for itself.
I started shopping Trek and Specialized at a LBS this afternoon - and you know... they seem to be VERY willing to help.
 

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I actually already answered in a PM before I saw this post

We do have 6 people at this time answering e-mails; and I have no idea who gave this response

But I do intend to find out

Warranty questions I do feel are covered in the posted Motobecane Warranty. And we have so few claims that the few we do see are handed quickly and normally beyond the stated requirement.

However, some questions on-line do seem to get answered and then reask in a differenent why. My employees should not get frustrated at that and become angry; but once foul words are sent by the sender; I have toild employees they can just not answer and forward the aggressive e-mail to me. This is what should have been done here.

I am sorry I have an employee that made a mistake.

Our warranty stands as stated; and our execution on claims of actual defects is as good or better than any other bike seller I know of. I do feel the Motobecane stated warranty is very clear. And to that end has been kept short as to not be unclear.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

  • And I thank you for taking the time to to respond on this issue.

  • Truly you can undersand someone (me) asking - can't you? It's $2000 Mike - for something no one can see or touch before they plunk down their $$$. Of course people are going to want to feel safe about an Internet purchase in such an amount. Whithout that trust, let;s face it - BD is out of business

  • This is not my first attempt to get information from your folks at BD - I can post the other threads if that would help demonstrate the pattern that lead to the frustration with BD. And I received the same run-around when asking about the frame size and the geometry. There was clearly no intention to help a customer - in this case me. My questions seemed to annoy the other party. You web page says "if you have any questions," "if you need any help" I have continued to ask for "help" with what I feel are basic questions about products and policy and been treated like gum stuck to someone's shoe.

  • And I have alologized in an e-mail reply for any offence as a result of the language used by me.

  • "not unclear" can also be "vague" for some - and so contacting you for clarification should not be treated as a hostile act. You were very clear in your PM to me on this matter. Why couldn't that have happend the first or second time I asked? I'd be happy and you'd have another LeChamp SL Ti out the door.

  • As I said before - No one should have to work so hard to spend hard-earned $$$. I would think you'd want to make that as easy as possible with as helpful an approach as could be mustered. The questions that have been asked of you are far from unreasonable and should have been treated with a good deal more courtesy - I don't have to like the answer, but there should at least be an attempt to help with a customer's concerns. When someone asks "what does that mean" and then offers examples that would clarify, they truly are asking you for help - please help, is how I believe I started each dialogue with your folks.

Again - Thanks for your time, Mike.

bikesdirect said:
I actually already answered in a PM before I saw this post

We do have 6 people at this time answering e-mails; and I have no idea who gave this response

But I do intend to find out

Warranty questions I do feel are covered in the posted Motobecane Warranty. And we have so few claims that the few we do see are handed quickly and normally beyond the stated requirement.



However, some questions on-line do seem to get answered and then reask in a differenent why. My employees should not get frustrated at that and become angry; but once foul words are sent by the sender; I have toild employees they can just not answer and forward the aggressive e-mail to me. This is what should have been done here.



I am sorry I have an employee that made a mistake.


Our warranty stands as stated; and our execution on claims of actual defects is as good or better than any other bike seller I know of. I do feel the Motobecane stated warranty is very clear. And to that end has been kept short as to not be unclear.



Mike
 
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JohnJohn301 said:
.....

________________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: JohnJohn301
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 21 May 2008 8:52 pm
Subject: RE: Moto Ti Warranty
Again…
“Warrantied for life” What does this mean? What remedy can a buyer of a Motobecane Ti frame expect if a frame breaks or a weld gives?
Will you simply send a new frame?
Do you issue a credit toward another frame? Full price credit? Prorated?
Do you know? Do you make it up as you go along?

Is there some reason you are being so vague about this, or am I not being clear about what I’m asking or are you too busy or do you simply not give a sh*t?
What the h*ll?



________________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 11:24 AM
To: JohnJohn301
Subject: Re: Moto Ti Warranty

Well, I am sorry that the warranty is to difficult for you to understand, but there is no need to be vulgar, so please do not email us again we are not interested in your business.
Given the email you sent them, I am more than a little surprised that you expected the response to any different.

You were needlessly rude in your post, if anyone sent an email like that to any of my staff my response would be exactly the same.

Take your business elsewhere.

Frankly, I think Mike has nothing to apologize for.
 

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toomanybikes said:
Given the email you sent them, I am more than a little surprised that you expected the response to any different.

You were needlessly rude in your post, if anyone sent an email like that to any of my staff my response would be exactly the same.

Take your business elsewhere.

Frankly, I think Mike has nothing to apologize for.
I love people that think a LBS owes them a new bike if anything ever happens to it regardless of the reason.
 

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toomanybikes said:
Given the email you sent them, I am more than a little surprised that you expected the response to any different.

You were needlessly rude in your post, if anyone sent an email like that to any of my staff my response would be exactly the same.

Take your business elsewhere.

Frankly, I think Mike has nothing to apologize for.

+1...What TMB said...no excuse for the language or tone of the email or thread.....
I'm not a fan of BD but they have nothing to apologize for....
 

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That's why you get fit at a LBS if you are unsure. They can help you with sizing in an infinitely more personal way online. Whenever I am asked to recommend a bike to someone, BD always comes up, but if they are new to the sport, I usually don't recommend them. BD is good for someone who knows what they want and what they are getting. It sounds like all the emails were professional and civil until yours.

If you had walked into your LBS and used that kind of language, don't you think they would have asked you to leave?
 

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bikesdirect said:
I actually already answered in a PM before I saw this post

We do have 6 people at this time answering e-mails; and I have no idea who gave this response

But I do intend to find out

Warranty questions I do feel are covered in the posted Motobecane Warranty. And we have so few claims that the few we do see are handed quickly and normally beyond the stated requirement.

However, some questions on-line do seem to get answered and then reask in a differenent why. My employees should not get frustrated at that and become angry; but once foul words are sent by the sender; I have toild employees they can just not answer and forward the aggressive e-mail to me. This is what should have been done here.

I am sorry I have an employee that made a mistake.

Our warranty stands as stated; and our execution on claims of actual defects is as good or better than any other bike seller I know of. I do feel the Motobecane stated warranty is very clear. And to that end has been kept short as to not be unclear.

Mike
Ya know you still didn't answer the questions he asked. Just said that the warrenty was clear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
toomanybikes said:
Given the email you sent them, I am more than a little surprised that you expected the response to any different.

You were needlessly rude in your post, if anyone sent an email like that to any of my staff my response would be exactly the same.

Take your business elsewhere.

Frankly, I think Mike has nothing to apologize for.
Ahhhh yes, I was warned that you'd be along soon. The righteous indignant.

Fact is, Mike did apologize and I have nothing but respect for him as a result. I think he is bright enough to see the error that caused the issue, even if you can't. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it.

But, until such time as you are empowered to speak for BD, save that noise. I care nothing for your delicate sensibilities or political correctness – it’s just drama and noise to keep the real issue from being called into question. You'd curse the lung cancer while looking past 30 years of cigarette smoking. I always love it when someone with a front row seat in the short-sighted row chimes in.

You don't want my business? I can live with that; just post the name of your business and I will be happy not to darken your door with my unrealistic expectations, with money in hand. BTW, do you work for an oil company? Your "pro-business arogance and anti-customer sentiment begs the question - but I digress.

I too manage a staff whose sole function is to provide service. If one of my staff treated one of our customers with the same reckless indifference as my question and concerns have been handeled, they would not work for me for very long.

If you take money from people for your goods and services you should be called out for going about that with a casual indifference toward your money-paying customers. And you know what? I believe Mike knows this too.

So while my way may not fit into the context that YOU feel is appropriate, and I will not argue that, I believe the real question is why should anyone have get angry to get a thoughtful reply. Or, did you missed the point that this was not the beginning of my dialouge with BD, but the end of two weeks of asking legitimate questions in order to purchase a 2nd bike from Mike? You know... that thing you all would be lathered up about if someone bought a bike without doing. ASKING QUESTIONS.... get it, yet?

So - no matter how you FEEL about it, there are others who are saying the same thing. “What the h*ll? Where is the freaking answer?

Such a difficult concept for some, I know.... so I’m going to help you.

You are driving down the road in your car. You realize you have to make an important call to a support group that you belong to. You are having a bad day and you need some help.

You pick up your cell phone and you dial 411 to get information.

A pleasant voice answers and asks "what city, please".

You state the city and ask for the number to Moron's Anonymous.

The pleasant voice responds "Ah yes, that number IS listed in our phone book, thank you for calling" and hangs up.

Reeling a little from what just happened, you redial 411 and go through the same routine again - this time making sure your are all the more clear "I NEED the number to Moron's Anonymous, it's very important, I'm having a really bad day.

The familiar and ever-pleasant voice replies "Oh yes, that number IS listed in our phone book under "M"... and again... hangs up.

Are ya starting to get a feel for this, dawg?
And the price ya get to pay for this "customer service" $1,999.00

Over & out!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
My Own Private Idaho said:
Besides, even if the frame doesn't fit, you can strip all of the parts off of it and still make money by selling it on ebay.
Yes, because that what this purchase is about.
Sounds like a Tijuana wedding....

Why not just a straight answer to a couple of questions?
Even... "I don't know" is a legitimate answer. And it beats, ahhhh yeah, we warranty that..... yeah, for life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
SleeveleSS said:
If you had walked into your LBS and used that kind of language, don't you think they would have asked you to leave?
My point exactly! Because you see, at the LBS you wouldn't have to, now would you....... I even went so far as to test this theory. YUP! It's true... walk into a LBS and ask about the geometry - you get answers for days. Ask about the warranty - you are told exactly what you can expect. Now grant you, for some "yeah, we warranty that" may be okay. But for my $2000, I'm needing a little more than that.

Regards -
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Dave Hickey said:
+1...What TMB said...no excuse for the language or tone of the email or thread.....
I'm not a fan of BD but they have nothing to apologize for....
Thanks!
How's the view from the cheap seats?
When it's your money, your opinion may be worth something.

Until then, KMart called. Your bike is ready for pick up. There is no warranty to worry about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Cfrone1 said:
Wow, that is amazing!

Then others will come along and slam you for being negative about BD.

Thanks for sharing though! It was a great read.
Dude -
This is too funny!
You can't buy entertainment like this.
Self-righteous nut-jobs are foaming at the mouth and coming out of every corner!
You were so right - except that Mike did PM me and was quite decent about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
spyro said:
Ya know you still didn't answer the questions he asked. Just said that the warrenty was clear.
Thank you for that!
At least there are two people besides myself in this forum who can actually read!

Bring me your tired, your hungry and your brainless. There's a home for them in this forum!
Too funny! Where's my popcorn!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oxtox said:
The OP acted like a stiff, got treated as such.

Where's the drama?
Bother to read the original post in this series? (there were others)
A whole lot of please and thank you going on there. Stiff language, indeed.

R.I.F. - Reading is fundamental. There's probably a program near you.
Cheers!
 
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