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Down to these two. Not a racer; just the weekly group rides. Avg in the 20 to 21mph range for our rides. I guess I'm trying to determine if the aero spokes in this case is purely bling. Blackset race is a bit lighter, and has a higher spoke count. I can get the CX-Ray spokes for the Blacksets but it would cost an additional 150bucks; ouch.

All opinions appreciated.

Thanks

Pete
 

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i'm right there with you. these are the wheels i'm look into and i just can't make up my mind.
1. BWW Blackset with cx-ray spokes.
2. Neuvation r28x aero
3. Reynolds Solitude
4. shimano rs80

these are all around $500. Can anyone recommend whats best?
 

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adamssss said:
i'm right there with you. these are the wheels i'm look into and i just can't make up my mind.
1. BWW Blackset with cx-ray spokes.
2. Neuvation r28x aero
3. Reynolds Solitude
4. shimano rs80
these are all around $500. Can anyone recommend whats best?
Without looking up all the specs on all those wheels (I know the specs on the BWW and I did look up the Reynolds) I can say that the BWW will beat them on weight and do it with more spokes (which means they probably do it with a lighter rim) and possible price (the Neuvs are heavier but less money).

It's impossible to ever answer the question of "what's best". My BWW Race with CX-Ray have been perfection. A friend has a set too - same result as me.
 

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peterk said:
Is there a true benefit to going with the c-xray spoke or is it purely for looks?
There are true benefits to CX-Rays and they are -

Lightness. They are one of the lightest spokes available - equal in weight to their brother, Sapim Lazer, and the DT Revolution. Only titanium spokes will be lighter but let's not go there as they're exotic stuff indeed. Actually, 'Rays are forged from Lazers so they are the same spoke only flatter.

Aerodynamics - I'm sure 'Rays take less power to push through the air than round spokes as their thickness is 0.9mm versus 1.5mm of Lazers and Revs or the 1.8mm of Sapim Race and DT Comp but that will give very diminished returns for their extra cost.

Strength - Sapim make some very debatable claims as to the extra "fatigue resistance" for 'Rays. Here is some of it -
http://www.sapim.be/index.php?st=products&sub=spokes&detail=fatiguetest
This silly graph stands up to NO scrutiny from anyone with any degree of scientific knowledge. The ultimate strength, or fatigue resistance, of spokes is never approached in normal use. Spokes are only stressed to a fraction of their capabilities so extra strength is a non issue.

As the 'Rays are the same weight as other light spokes and their aerodynamic advantage is very tiny, their cost for extra performance is high indeed. All that being said I have them on 4-5 sets of my wheels, including a set of mtb wheels. I have them for the same reason I have a titanium seatpost and stem on my mountain bike - because I want them. And everyone with a bike costing more than approx $1000 has made the same kind of choice.

I've been using 'Rays for about ten years with zero issues. But then I can say this for my Sapim Race and DT Comps too.
 

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Not Neuvations

I had a couple of sets that were bad. They broke spokes and the hubs went bad over time. The freehub bodies were too soft, and the cassette dug grooves in the freehub body. Customer service was good, but I would honestly not have to use it!

I now have a set of Easton EA 70's and love them. They have been reliable and fast. You can get them from Chainreaction for about $425 delivered.
 

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NJRoadie said:
I now have a set of Easton EA 70's and love them. They have been reliable and fast. You can get them from Chainreaction for about $425 delivered.
A heavy wheel. Heavier than my OpenPro/Dura Ace/DT Comp/32 spoke wheels.
 

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I am actually looking at the same 2 wheelsets at the moment. Seem like they are both very tough to beat for $300. I was looking at the standard Blackset Race with the standard spokes and BWW Hubs. Any insight into comparing those to the Neuvation R28XAeros?

The BWW Black set is a little lighter, and with more spokes. I do like the look of the R28XAeros spoke pattern though. I don't want to buy just because I think they look cool though...
 

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Hokiesean24 said:
I am actually looking at the same 2 wheelsets at the moment. Seem like they are both very tough to beat for $300. I was looking at the standard Blackset Race with the standard spokes and BWW Hubs. Any insight into comparing those to the Neuvation R28XAeros?
I've no personal knowledge of Neuvation so I can't comment but I've got lots of knowledge on BWW Race.

The BWW Black set is a little lighter, and with more spokes.
That, to me, means they have lighter rims and the potential not to go out of true as much if a spoke breaks.

I do like the look of the R28XAeros spoke pattern though. I don't want to buy just because I think they look cool though...
That only exists below 1mph.
 

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I'm thinking of offloading my relatively new Ksyrium SLs for a Blackset w/Sapims. Do you think that'd be an "upgrade" or do Blacksets roll about the same as the Kysriums, just for half the price?
 

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SBH1973 said:
I'm thinking of offloading my relatively new Ksyrium SLs for a Blackset w/Sapims. Do you think that'd be an "upgrade" or do Blacksets roll about the same as the Kysriums, just for half the price?
Sapim CX-Ray spokes (if that's what you mean by "Sapims") are very expensive spokes at approx $2.50 - $3.50 per spoke but that price pales in comparison to the price of spokes in those K-word wheels. I've seen prices from $7 to $15 per spoke and wait times (for special orders) to match. In that area alone Blackset Race would be an upgrade. IMO anyway. There is nothing aero about any K-word wheels (nor is there about the Race either) so what do they have going for them after we've got past the catchy name and the fancy decals? Read up on their biodegradable hubs and their fate should be sealed. Then, when we factor in their approx $1000 cost**.......well.

**Please don't anyone post that they saw K-SL's for $1.49 at Bill's Bike Barn Blowout two years ago.
 

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Mike, the thing is that I already have KSLs, with about 1300 miles. They're just what came with the bike. I know they're not worth $1000, but they seem to ride pretty well and feel pretty strong. The question is whether it's worth effectively replacing them with the Blacksets. Will the Blacksets (at c.1360 grams) roll better, accelerate better, flex less – all the things that one would want from a new wheelset. Otherwise, I might as well stick with the KSLs.

I also have a set of Mike Garcia wheels on Nimble rims w/AM Classic hub up front, DT Swiss 240s out back. My mechanic noticed some very minor stress fractures on the rear wheel, hence my decision not to sell the KSLs new when I got my new bike this spring. But maybe I should just go back to them and get rid of the KSLs now.
 

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SBH1973 said:
Mike, the thing is that I already have KSLs, with about 1300 miles. They're just what came with the bike. I know they're not worth $1000, but they seem to ride pretty well and feel pretty strong. The question is whether it's worth effectively replacing them with the Blacksets. Will the Blacksets (at c.1360 grams) roll better, accelerate better, flex less – all the things that one would want from a new wheelset. Otherwise, I might as well stick with the KSLs.
I'm sure you'd gain zero actual benefit from swapping wheels at this point. The only positive outcome would be if you could sell the K-word wheels for more than the BWW Race are worth.

I also have a set of Mike Garcia wheels on Nimble rims w/AM Classic hub up front, DT Swiss 240s out back. My mechanic noticed some very minor stress fractures on the rear wheel, hence my decision not to sell the KSLs new when I got my new bike this spring. But maybe I should just go back to them and get rid of the KSLs now.
Those rim cracks aren't going to improve any that's for sure. Me, I'd re-build the AM/DT240 hubs with new rims and spokes (the rear one anyway) and sell the K's. But that's me.
 

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Hokiesean24 said:
Pulled the trigger on the Neuvations. I'll update when I get them and actually put some miles one them.
I think you will be happy with the Neuvations. I have ~1200 miles on my R28 Aero4's and they've been great -- dead true, and have stayed that way even with some city commuting, rough roads, and the like. FWIW, I weigh 170lb.

Asad
 
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