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Banned Sock Puppet
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Banned Sock Puppet
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You know what I think is really lame? The term HTFU.....even though I struggle to resist using it with some people on these forums.

It's usually just a chest bumping, boner wagging display of faux manliness. You are better off just burping, farting and grunting.
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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You mean burfarunting, right?
Exactly! :thumbsup:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Opus51569 again.


 

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No, the wheel is 622.
Right, but the tire mounted on the rim is 700, as noted in my post from earlier today. The original 700c measurement comes from the tire\rim combination which necessitated a tire of a certain width measured in mm's.

I should have written the tire mounted on the rim constitutes the wheel, which is700c.
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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Right, but the tire mounted on the rim is 700, as noted in my post from earlier today. The original 700c measurement comes from the tire\rim combination which necessitated a tire of a certain width measured in mm's.

I should have written the tire mounted on the rim constitutes the wheel, which is700c.
700c is nothing more than an arbitrary designation. As you said, for this to be a true measurement, it would be required to be a specific width. But we all know that all widths of road tires mountable to 622mm rims are designated 700c, while all widths of mountain tires mountable to 622mm rims are designated 29.

Bike tire sizing systems are more of a cluster f*ck than car tire sizing systems.
 

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700c is nothing more than an arbitrary designation. As you said, for this to be a true measurement, it would be required to be a specific width. But we all know that all widths of road tires mountable to 622mm rims are designated 700c, while all widths of mountain tires mountable to 622mm rims are designated 29.

Bike tire sizing systems are more of a cluster f*ck than car tire sizing systems.
It's not arbitrary, but it's true worth is lost in the annals of time. At one time there was a 700c tire a 650b tire a 650a tire, but there was never a 25c tire.
 

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It's not arbitrary, but it's true worth is lost in the annals of time. At one time there was a 700c tire a 650b tire a 650a tire, but there was never a 25c tire.
The Continental Ultra 2000 tires I have are printed on the sidewall, "700 x 25C." They're about 5 years old. The Gatorskins are marked "700 x 28C." WTF?

Which leads to the question: is the size designation 25C or mm, 28C or mm, a measure of height or width?

My measurements above seem to indicate height, and of course width would vary according to height, but not necessarily as much, depending on casing and rim width. Larger clincher road tires generally seem to be elongated in height but not equally in width. :confused: Tubular tires would stay round in height and width.

Also, 650B et. al. are followed by another number referring to tire size. It will be larger than 25 or 28 mm, although the total diameter of the wheel with tire mounted would be the same or very close.

IOW, I find the new insistence on millimeters just as misleading or possibly more so than the old C designations. :confused:
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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The Continental Ultra 2000 tires I have are printed on the sidewall, "700 x 25C." They're about 5 years old. The Gatorskins are marked "700 x 28C." WTF?

Which leads to the question: is the size designation 25C or mm, 28C or mm, a measure of height or width?

My measurements above seem to indicate height, and of course width would vary according to height, but not necessarily as much, depending on casing and rim width. Larger clincher road tires generally seem to be elongated in height but not equally in width. :confused: Tubular tires would stay round in height and width.

Also, 650B et. al. are followed by another number referring to tire size. It will be larger than 25 or 28 mm, although the total diameter of the wheel with tire mounted would be the same or very close.

IOW, I find the new insistence on millimeters just as misleading or possibly more so than the old C designations. :confused:
It's meant to be confusing. That's what marketing is all about.
 

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The Continental Ultra 2000 tires I have are printed on the sidewall, "700 x 25C." They're about 5 years old. The Gatorskins are marked "700 x 28C." WTF?

Which leads to the question: is the size designation 25C or mm, 28C or mm, a measure of height or width?

My measurements above seem to indicate height, and of course width would vary according to height, but not necessarily as much, depending on casing and rim width. Larger clincher road tires generally seem to be elongated in height but not equally in width. :confused: Tubular tires would stay round in height and width.

Also, 650B et. al. are followed by another number referring to tire size. It will be larger than 25 or 28 mm, although the total diameter of the wheel with tire mounted would be the same or very close.

IOW, I find the new insistence on millimeters just as misleading or possibly more so than the old C designations. :confused:
Originally there was one tire size that in combination with a 622 diameter rim made up a 700c wheel. That was then, now there are many different width tires that fit a 622 rim, from as small or smaller than 20mm on up thru 40mm or larger. The wheel has stayed the same since its inception, but the tire has changed, and the tires change is measured in mm's. It doesn't matter that the manufacturer calls the tire size 25c, they may not care or know the history and are just printing what they think is right or what they think that the market understands.

Why would a nominal 28mm tire be called 28c? A mm is a known, whether they hit the mark, or miss, so why settle for a "c" that means nothing unless measured in conjunction with a 622 rim, and then is only, in reality, one tire size?
 

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Originally there was one tire size that in combination with a 622 diameter rim made up a 700c wheel. That was then, now there are many different width tires that fit a 622 rim, from as small or smaller than 20mm on up thru 40mm or larger. The wheel has stayed the same since its inception, but the tire has changed, and the tires change is measured in mm's. It doesn't matter that the manufacturer calls the tire size 25c, they may not care or know the history and are just printing what they think is right or what they think that the market understands.

Why would a nominal 28mm tire be called 28c? A mm is a known, whether they hit the mark, or miss, so why settle for a "c" that means nothing unless measured in conjunction with a 622 rim, and then is only, in reality, one tire size?
Well shucks. A 622mm rim with a 78mm [about 3"] tire measures 700mm in circumference. So ok, if the original clinchers were that fat, one could note that as the original. So C does mean circumference. C makes more sense describing the roundness of the tire in area, width and height combined.

I think whippersnappers hitting on us old timers saying the C word might be a cultural thing, along with Zwift, statistics and weekly opinion polls. As you say, precise millimeter measurements are more satisfying than references to circumference, even if they aren't any more accurate. Digital thinking likes quantifying with numbers. Letters are a throwback to the literary age. :D
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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Well shucks. A 622mm rim with a 78mm [about 3"] tire measures 700mm in circumference. So ok, if the original clinchers were that fat, one could note that as the original. So C does mean circumference. C makes more sense describing the roundness of the tire in area, width and height combined.
Huh? I don't think the circumference of that tire is 700. :confused: And if c stands for circumference, what does b in 650b stand for? Sounds like you're making stuff up unless you're mixing up circumference with diameter.
 

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Huh? I don't think the circumference of that tire is 700. :confused: And if c stands for circumference, what does b in 650b stand for? Sounds like you're making stuff up unless you're mixing up circumference with diameter.
As usual, Freddy is talking out of an alternative orifice. He gets confused, you know.

First of all, remember your geometry: Circumference = 2*(pi)*r., and Ø=2*r. With a diameter of 622mm, the r=311, so therefore the C of a 622D wheel without tires is 1,953mm. Obviously Frederico is completely ignorant in his post, or else he's getting confused in his old age. Now, let's "splain" what it really means:

In the French/metric sizing system, there is 700A (642mm Ø, obsolete), 700B (635mm Ø, same as old British "28'" roadsters, rare today), 700C (622mm Ø, common today), and 700D (583mm Ø, odd, very close to 650B).
 

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Any incremental change or substitution of one part for another is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

This would be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT but is even it?

 

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Devoid of all flim-flam
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Any incremental change or substitution of one part for another is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

This would be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT but is even it?

Great vid!
 
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