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· Road-Guy
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I started the year with a Scott Addict R1 frame, a Dura Ace 7900 group and a set of Reynold's MV32UL Clinchers. The bike was fast, light and worked flawlessly.

I have been a life-long Campagnolo rider. After 500 miles, I failed to adjust to the Shimano shifting, decided go back to Campagnolo and splurged on a Super Record group.

The Reynold's wheelset uses a DT 240 rear hub. It was easy to buy and mount the Campagnolo compatible freehub body and mating axle end. I mounted the SR 11-25 cassette without any drama. The cassette mounted on the body without any spacers and used all the space capacity of the body.

To make a long story short...... I have been dealing with many problems and slowly solving them. However, there is an issue with my Reynolds MV32UL wheels. I've read that similar issues exist with Mavic wheels too.

Presently, there is less than a 1 mm clearance between the cassette lock-ring and the drop-out of the Scott Addict. When the chain is properly positioned on the large cog (25t) and the small chainring (34t), the DERAILLEUR CAGE MAKES CONTACT WITH THE SPOKES. If a shim is placed between the cassette and the flange of the freehub body, the lock-ring overlaps the bearing surface of the axle.

I have learned that the actual width of the 11 speed cog set is wider than the Campagnolo 10 speed spacing. They both occupy the same space where they contact the free hub body, However, the alloy carriers of largest cog group curve outward toward the spokes to create additional gear spacing.

I am considering a spacer shim between the flange and the cassette body AND adding a washer on the right axle end, but I am not happy or comfortable with stretching the frame and enlarging the distance between the dropouts. I have sent an E-mail to Reynolds' tech support asking for their input, but have not received a response, to date.

BTW, when I mounted the rear derailleur to the hanger, it was necessary to add a spacer washer because it was not possible to align the small cog with the upper jockey pulley. The RD was too close to the 11t cog. It was impossible to achieve smooth shifting across the cassette with this misalignment.

So, does anyone have experience or a perspective to share?

BETTER YET, WHAT REAR WHEEL, CASSETTE SIZE AND HUB ARE YOU USING? WHAT SPECIAL ACCOMODATIONS HAVE YOU MADE WITH SPACERS, SHIMS AND WASHERS. PLEASE SHARE WHAT WHEELS, AT THIS TIME, DO NOT WORK WITH CAMPAGNOLO 11 SPEED.

Following is something dealing with Mavic's perspective of the compatibility issue with their wheels.
http://glorycycles.blogspot.com/2009/04/campagnolo-11-speed-and-mavic-wheels.html
 

· Road-Guy
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
C-40, Did you need any spacers or other accomodations when you used the Ksyriums or Fulcrum Zero's?

My 1300 gm Reynolds MV32UL clinchers were a significant investment of $$$. I was informed, at the time I was considering the switch to Campagnolo 11, that the kit was reasonably priced, almost fool-proof and needed no spacers or re-dishing. The assumption was that 10 and 11 occupied the same space on the freehub body.

The setup currently is workable but less than perfect. All gears alignments are perfect except engagement in the 25 tooth cog. That pairing is noisy. I can tune the noise out with the stop screw, but the cage gets too close to the drive-side spokes where they cross.

I just bought a set of 2007 Ksyrium SL wheels and converted them to a Mavic's Campagnolo compatible body. I have not mounted a cassette on them yet. I was hoping to pick up a Chorus 11 speed, steel tooth cassette.

C-40, do you know of a contact where I can buy an 11-25 Chorus 11 speed cassette at the best price?

BTW, When did the Ksyrium SL wheelset start using a reduced rim depth for the front wheel? I am dissappointed that the total weight of my 2007 SL wheelset weighs 1575 gms. I was expecting a weight of 1480.
 

· Registered
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10,161 Posts
info...

All of my wheels accept 11 speed cassettes with no spacer and the chain isn't even close to the spokes; there's plenty of room. Edit: My powertap hub does leave little room for the chain, on the largest cog (a 25T). The heads-in spokes get real close, but still no problem.

Try Shiny Bikes or Ribble in the UK for good prices on Campy and many other items like tires. You have to deduct 17.5% for the european VAT that is included in prices at Shiny. After that, they're slightly cheaper than Ribble, who is also out of stock on most items.

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/ro...Campagnolo-11-Spd-Chorus-Cassette/CAMPCASS700

http://www.shinybikes.com/bikes/campagnolo-11-spd-chorus-cassette-2009.html
 

· Registered
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423 Posts
C-40 so you seem to be the guy on campy. I love it - after over 10 years of dura ace I got a chorus 11 speed groupset and love it. Way better than shimano. Here is my deal - and I posted this prior - my 12-25 works fine, my 11-23 does not. I'm trying to fit them on a 2008 ksyrium wheel and the 11-23 either rubs at the spokes or rubs at the frame with the 11 too tight against the frame. I've tried with spacers - without spacers - can't do it.

Now I do think the 11-23 is a 2009 and the 12-25 is a 2010 and I did, at one point, have the 11-23 working fine, but after a 8 months, or the winter, I went to change from my 25 to the 23 and can not get it to work.

Ideas?
 

· Road-Guy
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ronderman,
I am assuming that your 2008 Ksyrium is the same as my 2007 Ksyrium SL in terms of spoke type and dish. At the rim, your spokes are located on the centerline of the rear wheel. At the the drive-side, the other end of the spoke is tapering outward as it approaches and meets the hub flange. The closer the spoke gets to the hub flange, the closer it gets to the drive mechanisms. The pulley mechanism with adjust its vertical position over the cog with the chain. The radius and diameter of a 23 tooth cog is less than a 25 tooth cog. That puts the end of the 23 teeth closer to the hub flange and therefore closer to the derailleur cage. The 25 tooth will be in proximaty to the spokes closer to the centerline of the wheel. A 27 tooth cog will, likewise have more space.
Here is a hot selling item for Mavic wheels these days:
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/r...vic-campagnolo-11-speed-spacer-6310.30.1.html

C-40, What size 11 speed cassette are you using with your Ksyriums? Is it Ksyrium equipe, Elite or SL?
 

· Registered
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772 Posts
Just a comment on what I have found with Ribble. They have a very strange pricing structure on shipping to the USA. They seem to jump the cost considerably after about $125 and I have often found a better price with two shipments costing less than a single shipment. Most often I have found their shipping costs are substantially less than Shineybikes.
 

· Road-Guy
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hats Off to Nielly!

Thank you, Nielly.
I went back to the shop where I bought my Scott Addict R1 Frameset (last month) and asked them to check the alignment of the rear derailleur hanger. It was NOT properly aligned. In short, it was the reason the derailleur cage could not be properly adjusted without hitting the spokes of the Reynolds MV32UL wheel. For the first time, rear shifting is flawless from the 11 to the 25 tooth. My wheel is safe.

When the frame was received, it was brand new, carefully packaged and who would have guessed that the hanger was "off." At present, shifting is perfect on both derailleurs.

I spoke with Dan at Campagnolo in California. I need to share some misconceptions that are being advanced on this forum.

-Front Shifter/Front Derailleur Adjustment of 11 speed: 3 (THREE) CLICKS to more from the small ring to the big ring. Use of a FD barrel adjuster is highly recommended. Using 4 clicks provides too much lateral movement and results in lots of trimming.

-Super Record Ultra Torque Cranks: 1 mm of lateral movement following assembly is normal. The crank WILL move laterally when force is applied to the center of the non-drive side. It is the compression of the wavy washer. There is no deflection under normal pedaling force. Ceramic bearings of SR can be lightly oiled but no heavy lubes. Grease attracts and traps grit. Anti-seize lube is used where the races meet the cups.
Adding additional washers or increasing spring tension will, according to Dan, damage the bearing.
 

· classiquesklassieker
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3,113 Posts
C-40 said:
No problems at all with Mavic Ksyriums, Fulcrum Zero or Powertap hubs and 11 speed.
For the benefit of readers who may stumble upon this thread in the future, I confirm no problems with 11-sp drivetrain on the following wheels:
* DT Swiss RR 1450 (with 2x spoking on rear, 240S hub, DT Swiss R1.1 rim).
* Recent (2008?) vintage of Campagnolo Khamsin.
* Recent (2006?) vintage of Campagnolo Neutron.

I will next try on my 3x Open Pro / Record hub combo and report the findings soon.

FYI, I tried a Cyfac frame and an early 90s Peter Mooney frame (after re-setting the rear triangle spacing).
 

· Registered
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447 Posts
Clifford Feldman said:
Thank you, Nielly.
No problem, I would like to claim sheer brilliance on my part but actually I just went through this recently with a new set of wheels and found the derailleur cage rubbing on the spokes and was puzzled as well for a bit. On my frame (an Orbea) the hangar seems real easy to bend (as part of the design I suppose) and probably got bent a bit when I shipped it on a trip. By the way these wheels are Record hubs laced 3x to FIR tubulars which are now on my new ride with Record 11. The drivetrain seems fine and I will be giving a good workout this weekend.
 

· Road-Guy
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39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Rear Derailleur Alignment

I used the original shop where I purchased the frame. I knew that they would do a proper procedure given their warranty responsibility. It was an additional 90 minutes of driving.
The mechanic checked the alignment with the bike assembled and wheel in position. Then removed the hanger, placed it in a vise with aluminum jaws. He bent the hanger, remounted it, rechecked and removed it and repeated the process. He repeated the process 3 or 4 times until it was perfect.

It is a relief to be able to confidently use my Reynolds wheelset with the Campy 11 group.

Again, Thanks for your great suggestion.
 

· Registered
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10,161 Posts
interesting...

The point of using the Park alignment tool is to be able to bend the hanger while it's still on the bike. As long as the skewer is clamped tight, there is no need to remove the hanger. The Park tool is supposed to be used to align the hanger. I've used mine on all three of my LOOK carbon frames with no problem.

http://www.parktool.com/products/documents/DAG-2_Instruction_201063_87007.pdf
 

· So. Calif.
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2,861 Posts
Clifford Feldman said:
... I spoke with Dan at Campagnolo in California. I need to share some misconceptions that are being advanced on this forum.

-Front Shifter/Front Derailleur Adjustment of 11 speed: 3 (THREE) CLICKS to more from the small ring to the big ring. Use of a FD barrel adjuster is highly recommended. Using 4 clicks provides too much lateral movement and results in lots of trimming.
...
That just seems WRONG ... you will lose, not gain trimming ability.

Assume the chain is on small chain ring, FD is fully inboard, then the 4 clicks provide this function:

0 : cage fully inboard, chain on small ring, cage position optimum for larger cogs
1st click: cage moves outward, chain stays on small ring, trims FD for smaller cogs.
2nd click: begins shifting to big ring.
3rd click: chain fully on big ring, cage position optimum for larger cogs.
4th click: cage moves outward, trims FD for smaller cogs.

With just 3 clicks, you will lose position corresponding to click 1 or click 4.
I suppose position 2 seems wasted, but you can't just "eliminate" it.
 

· Registered
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10,161 Posts
agree...

There is no way that 3 clicks will provide adequate travel from an 11 speed RD. Working from the fully right, big ring position, the first push of the thumb button will trim the cage to the left, for use with larger cogs. The second click of the thumb button should drop the chain onto the little ring. The next two are required to move the cage far enough to the left to avoid chain rub in the little ring and largest cog. I set my low limit screw so there is very little clearance with the chain in the fully left position.

I've never dropped a chain yet, with my 50/34 cranks.

Three clicks used to work with 2006 or older FDs, but it's been four clicks since 2007.
 
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