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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a C50 on order and am thinking of either transfering 03 Record from my MXL or getting a 04 Record set for it.

Anyhow what do you think about 04 Record hidden headset on C50? Does this headset come with compression type of nut or star nut? I don't want the regular Campy headset or King HS on my C50.

If it's star nut then will it be okay to install it in a carbon steerer? All my carbon fork steerers have compression type of nuts. Anyone have pix of 04 hiddenset installed on any carbon head tube or even better on a C40 or C50?
 

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Not !!!

Hiddensets are only for those frames designed for that type of headset, not on the C50.

Star inserts should NOT be used on carbon steerer tubes. Use the fitting that comes with the Colnago fork.

You should consider consulting a professional bike shop to get this bike built the right way.
 

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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh, okay. BTW I am not installing...

C50 said:
Hiddensets are only for those frames designed for that type of headset, not on the C50.

Star inserts should NOT be used on carbon steerer tubes. Use the fitting that comes with the Colnago fork.

You should consider consulting a professional bike shop to get this bike built the right way.
the headset. Maestro will be. I am sure he won't install something that shouldn't be installed. After I emailed him to do so I started to wonder and figured I better look into it. He'll prep and install bb and headset, the rest I'll be doing. My two Look(intergrated FSA headsets) and a trainer bike(CaneCreek S2 headset) turned out fine.

Too bad I like the low profile and carbon ring Campy hiddenset. So what are my headset options for C50? Isn't there a Colnago branded one?
 

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Headset

The Colnago headset is OK, but the best out there now is still the Chris King, which is what I went for.
 

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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Personally...

C50 said:
The Colnago headset is OK, but the best out there now is still the Chris King, which is what I went for.
I really don't like CK HS on Colnagos. I have CK on my Merckx cross bike and it makes sense there and looks okay (black frame w/ black CK HS,) I think, because it makes sense for a CX bike. But on a road bike I buy the thought that CK class HS is not necessary and over kill and they just don't look right to me on a Colnagos or many Euro road bikes. I say again, this is my own personal peculier preference and I want my C50 to feel just right for me.

I think I have plenty of time to look around for the components knowing how backed up Colnago is with these C50s. At least mine is the new paint scheme one, PR4, so the wait shouldn't be as long as the custom retro paint jobs etc.But then it's a sloping geometry so we'll see. Then again it could be any day since Mike(Maestro) saids it's been on order since Oct/03.

BTW what type of bike/ headtube is that Campy hidden headset for?
 

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I've been to the shop

6was9 said:
the headset. Maestro will be. I am sure he won't install something that shouldn't be installed. After I emailed him to do so I started to wonder and figured I better look into it. He'll prep and install bb and headset, the rest I'll be doing. My two Look(intergrated FSA headsets) and a trainer bike(CaneCreek S2 headset) turned out fine.

Too bad I like the low profile and carbon ring Campy hiddenset. So what are my headset options for C50? Isn't there a Colnago branded one?
I live in London and went down to take delivery of my C-40 last year. As C-50 stated, the C-50 frame is not designed for hidden headsets so it's not going to happen. As for the Colnago one, I don't like the look and it's a needle bearing design if that's important to you.

Mike Perry, he is Maestro Cycles, can build a bike up in his sleep. The bike stand you see on the newly updated website, it looks like an ironing board. Regardless, he knows his way around it as I spent 3 hours at the shop just talking while he built it up and learned more about Colnago and DeRosa than my 30+ years of prior bike experience..

I have two bikes with Chris King headsets and two with FSA (both sealed bearing). My C-40's built with a Campag Record and I've used a Chorus without issue in UK (read wet) conditions for three years. They work just fine, stay in adjustment and have parts that can be replaced.

Chris King headsets are nice but cost a small fortune in the UK, as in £100+ which is $190 or so. They're the best but at that price, the Record is as good. Mike is a very straight guy and I asked him about getting a Chris King. He pointed out that the Record just worked just fine. If you really want a sealed bearing headset, the one to get in the UK is the Hope. Only made in 1.125" and it's as they say over here, the dogs bollocks. Again, overkill for the road but still, a nicely made piece.

One thing to remember if you get the Record and are going to change at some point to a CK, the top stack height on the Record is lower by 5mm. Keep that in mind when cutting the steerer.

The steerer plug is actually a metal expanding mandrel which uses a conical wedge inside a splined surround, tightened up with an allen wrench. Your top cap bolt then goes into the mandrel. Similar to the picture but longer.

You're in good hands with Mike and personally, I'd go with the Record.
 

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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the thorough answer and...

boneman said:
Mike Perry, he is Maestro Cycles, can build a bike up in his sleep. The bike stand you see on the newly updated website, it looks like an ironing board. Regardless, he knows his way around it as I spent 3 hours at the shop just talking while he built it up and learned more about Colnago and DeRosa than my 30+ years of prior bike experience..
QUOTE]

the bit about your experience with Mike. I've heard nothing but good things about him and it's even more assuring to hear someone's first hand experience. I have no concerns even though this is my first time dealing with him. The only thing is that when he called me the other day I couldn't quite understand everything he was saying because of, I think, his accent, or it could have been my cell phone :( I understood 80% no preblem. The other 20% I got the gist of what he was saying ;) I used to have the same problem watching Monty Python :p although I am much better now.

Anyhow I suppose this is just about my shallow 'look/appearance' preference; I don't like silver/aluminum headset collars (does Campy come in black?) nor do I like CK. I want minimal amount of HS collar showing and whatever little that's showing I want carbon or subdued black. Am I being overly picky and bad as my lbs guy told me? I actually wouldn't mind a regular Campy headset on my MXL although it has a Canecreek aheadset that has very low profile thin black rubber collar. But I just don't think silver/al collar will look right on mostly black carbon C50. I'll ask Mike whether he has anything like what I want otherwise I'll just have him make sure that headtube is ready and install one myself. I do have a HS cup press I've never used so far. I also know a good lbs who don't mind working on frames bought elsewhere and does beautiful job (not my lbs, he's a Colnago dealer and I don't think he'll like that.)

Never heard of the Hope before. I'll have to look into it even just for curiosity. Do you have any URL handy?
 

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the bit about your experience with Mike. I've heard nothing but good things about him and it's even more assuring to hear someone's first hand experience. I have no concerns even though this is my first time dealing with him. The only thing is that when he called me the other day I couldn't quite understand everything he was saying because of, I think, his accent, or it could have been my cell phone :( I understood 80% no preblem. The other 20% I got the gist of what he was saying ;) I used to have the same problem watching Monty Python :p although I am much better now.

Anyhow I suppose this is just about my shallow 'look/appearance' preference; I don't like silver/aluminum headset collars (does Campy come in black?) nor do I like CK. I want minimal amount of HS collar showing and whatever little that's showing I want carbon or subdued black. Am I being overly picky and bad as my lbs guy told me? I actually wouldn't mind a regular Campy headset on my MXL although it has a Canecreek aheadset that has very low profile thin black rubber collar. But I just don't think silver/al collar will look right on mostly black carbon C50. I'll ask Mike whether he has anything like what I want otherwise I'll just have him make sure that headtube is ready and install one myself. I do have a HS cup press I've never used so far. I also know a good lbs who don't mind working on frames bought elsewhere and does beautiful job (not my lbs, he's a Colnago dealer and I don't think he'll like that.)

Never heard of the Hope before. I'll have to look into it even just for curiosity. Do you have any URL handy?[/QUOTE]

You should go to Liverpool if you want to hear English accents. I've been here a while but my 'scouse is useless. Despite that I was able to order a custom steel bike.

No, the Campag stuff doesn't come in black. I'd be interested to see what Mike comes back with although again, I'd go with the Record. It works and the silver will look just fine.

Actually breaks up the monotone monotony.

http://www.hopetech.com/
 

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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Actually don't look bad...

boneman said:
No, the Campag stuff doesn't come in black. I'd be interested to see what Mike comes back with although again, I'd go with the Record. It works and the silver will look just fine.

Actually breaks up the monotone monotony.

QUOTE]

I looked at the Hope HS and you're right...it looks rather crude. Colnago one is too big too. Your Campy Record(?) HS doesn't look bad on your C40 (which color scheme is that?) It actually looks Ti. I have a left over 03 Record HS sitting around and it's much whiter shade of silver/al. Yours look darker. Maybe it's the pic/ reflection.

Thanks again for the pix, link, etc.
 

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Adrenalina Italiana
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I went with the Chris King on my C-50

I had to mail it to Mike though. I thought he was joking when he told me how expensive these were overseas. I've had King headsets on all my bikes and was kinda reluctant to go with anything else. I was thinking a man with your connections couldn't get deals on King headsets....come on!
I know what you mean about the wait. I ordered a C-50 with a classic AD10 paintscheme (98/99 Mapei) back in Nov. and it'll probably be ready in June. I can't wait to get it, this bike is going to be sick! I've talked to Mike a couple of times on the phone and I know what you mean about the accent but he probably got a kick out of mine for I live in the south. He has really bent over backwards for me though in helping me reach my decisions pertaining to the build of my bike, he really does live and breath bikes.
Boneman, I enjoyed the pictures of the build of your bike. I'm glad you used the Colnago fork it looks sweet!
 

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NeoRetroGrouch
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C'dale is the only...

bike I've seen that takes the Hiddenset.

TF
 

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To name a few, Giant, Pinarello, and DeRosa take the Hiddenset. Depending on the race angle some frames with FSA integrated are also compatible with the Hiddenset.
 

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The headset

It's a 2003 Record. Probably looks darker due to the reflection. Paint scheme is AD-10 which Mapei used to ride before getting their own scheme. Head tube is basically black although the complete bike can be seen in another post in this section.
 

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King HS in the UK

SPINDAWG said:
I had to mail it to Mike though. I thought he was joking when he told me how expensive these were overseas. I've had King headsets on all my bikes and was kinda reluctant to go with anything else. I was thinking a man with your connections couldn't get deals on King headsets....come on!
I know what you mean about the wait. I ordered a C-50 with a classic AD10 paintscheme (98/99 Mapei) back in Nov. and it'll probably be ready in June. I can't wait to get it, this bike is going to be sick! I've talked to Mike a couple of times on the phone and I know what you mean about the accent but he probably got a kick out of mine for I live in the south. He has really bent over backwards for me though in helping me reach my decisions pertaining to the build of my bike, he really does live and breath bikes.
Boneman, I enjoyed the pictures of the build of your bike. I'm glad you used the Colnago fork it looks sweet!
Bike parts, frames, etc. made in the US cost more due to the following:

Declared value = price paid + shipping (US to UK)
Import duty= Declared value x rate= 15%
VAT= (Declared value + Import Duty) * 17.5%
Your cost= Declared Value + Import Duty + VAT + distributor/LBS markup

Campag cost into the UK

Declared value + difference in VAT rates (UK vs Italy) 2.5%
Your cost= Declared Value + VAT differential + distributor/LBS markup

Hence, CK is extremely unattractive on a pricing basis in the UK, Europe and most of the World.

I'm going over to the States in June, something I do every other year, and will be buying a couple of CK's for my stash and a Park steerer cutting guide and crown race remover.

Thanks for the comment on the bike and fork. Its been over 5 years since riding a steel fork and one forgets that their performance, notwithstanding weight, exceeds anything I've ridden in CF to date.

By now, you must be absolutely dying for the C-50. Hang in there, it'll be sweet when it comes!
 

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NeoRetroGrouch
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Well kept secret...

divve said:
To name a few, Giant, Pinarello, and DeRosa take the Hiddenset. Depending on the race angle some frames with FSA integrated are also compatible with the Hiddenset.
since none of those sites mention the Hiddenset. I though all three angle were different (1 Campy and 2 for FSA std) and I am very sure that the bearings for the Campy and FSA std are a different size. Everything I have seen says NOT compatable.

TF
 

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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've always assumed...

TurboTurtle said:
since none of those sites mention the Hiddenset. I though all three angle were different (1 Campy and 2 for FSA std) and I am very sure that the bearings for the Campy and FSA std are a different size. Everything I have seen says NOT compatable.

TF
Hiddenset is Campy's version of intergrated HS but apparently not, or is it? What is Campy hiddenset?
 

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NeoRetroGrouch
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Here is the Park explaination...

http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_headtypes.shtml

For integrated headsets, there are two "IS" (FSA developed trademark) versions with different top race angles and one Hiddenset (Campy trademark) version. According to averything I can find, they are not compatable and only C'dale uses the Campy.

TF
 

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rock n rolling resistance
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's interesting that Campy would...

TurboTurtle said:
http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_headtypes.shtml

For integrated headsets, there are two "IS" (FSA developed trademark) versions with different top race angles and one Hiddenset (Campy trademark) version. According to averything I can find, they are not compatable and only C'dale uses the Campy.

TF
make an exclusive headset for C-dale or one (the cooler looking) of their two versions of HS is a such a specialized/rarely used type.

Thanks for the link. I've never paid attention to that article before somehow.
 

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Boneman, the EC import duty (much is harmonized including bikes), is for a complete bike. I think deep buried in some rule book a frameset only has around 5.5% duty.
 
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