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Every little counts...
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here are my pics. With a careful chain length, I can run 39-12 and 53-29 (wheel change) with one chain using a short cage RD. In racing, you have to make sure the drivetrain can take whatever you can throw at it when the hammer comes down.

Of course, if you only run 13-29 with this setup, you could probably add a complete link to the chain, maybe two.
 

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this is out of spec per both campy and shimano manuals.


Spunout said:
Here are my pics. With a careful chain length, I can run 39-12 and 53-29 (wheel change) with one chain using a short cage RD. In racing, you have to make sure the drivetrain can take whatever you can throw at it when the hammer comes down.

Of course, if you only run 13-29 with this setup, you could probably add a complete link to the chain, maybe two.
 

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over extended...

The bottom picture certainly looks like the RD is over extended to me, but as long nothing breaks, I guess you're OK.

Readers should be aware that chainstay length comes into play when you're trying to push the limit. If you're lucky and have just the right chainstay length, this may work, but not all bikes will produce the same result. Since chain length can only be changed in 1-inch increments, it's like changing the chainstay length by 1/2 inch. If your chainstays were 1/4 longer or shorter, you might not get this setup to work.
 

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yea, why would you even need those ridiculous cross chainings anyway? Just shift down the crank and move up the rear cassette, no need for those gears....
 

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missing the point...

The poster has two set of wheels. I'll assume one set has an 11-23 where a 39/12 combination is viable. The other set has the 13-29. With the 13-29 he would never use the 53/29 but to be safe, you should be sure that nothing will be damaged if you were to accidentally shift into this combo. Normally, you wouldn't go further than the 53/26.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
odeum said:
this is out of spec per both campy and shimano manuals.
I wouldn't know what is in a shimano manual.

Of course it is out of spec! But it works. Brimstone does not fall from the sky and the bike doesn't blow up. That was my point.

Second point, is that you have to make sure that the extremes work because you WILL accidentally shift into it at some time.
 

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odeum said:
this is out of spec per both campy and shimano manuals.
You must have a different manual to me :)

I have a Surly Cross Check that I use for road and cross uses. On the road I use a 13/25 9 speed cassette, and when I built the cross wheels I wanted the largest cassette I could fit.

Since the Campagnolo short and medium cage deralleurs use the same body, I knew the shortcage Veloce that I had could handle a 29, so I tried it and it worked. Then I tried a 30, and that worked. Then I tried a 32 and that worked. So I tried a 34, and guess what, it worked.

I have no rub in the 39/13 on the road cassette, and I have enough chain length to run 53/34 as well. Of course there are a lot of gears you try not to use, but the 39/34 gives me a great gear for climbing up steep dirtroads.

As C40 mentioned, this is very bike specific. The Cross Check has very long chainstays, and I think the distance from the center of the deralleur "B" bolt to the center of the axle is slightly longer on this bike than most road bikes, which will help with cassette clearance. Just chiming in to show you that it CAN be done.

Both cassettes are Shimano 9 speed, converted to Campy 10 spacing with some spacers that I manufacture, chain is a SRAM 991 Hollowpin, sized using the "small/small" method
 

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Spunout, thanks for taking the time to post the pictures of your setup. You too, Lab Worker.

I bought the bike that prompted my question in the other thread, and the rear der (Centaur) is indeed a short cage. Unfortunately the shop did not have a 13-29 cassette in stock, so they're going to UPS one to me to swap out with the 12-25, which I'll then send back.

Since I won't be swapping wheels, do you think I should plan to go ahead and add a link or two to my chain? If so, what's the suggested method for doing this? I have all manner of Shimano tools but nothing yet for Campy except their BB/lockring socket. Could I just add one or two more split links, such as the SuperLink III? Or buy a new chain? And if I do, am I going to need that $100 Campy 10-speed chain tool? :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No. Use your normal park or shimano chain too. Get a Wipperman 10s Connex Link with your chain if you want a removable chain.

Set you chain length in 39/12 where you want to get the chain as long as possible but still under tension like in my OP picture. If you are unsure, take out one link less and put the chain together with the connex link and check it out. If it sags, blow another link out and re-connect.

Careful that you do not cut it too short.

I can put a 10s chain together with a park tool using the campy pin supplied with the chain no probs. But I prefer to use a Connex link so that I can remove the chain to clean it. After a race in the rain, one appreciates this ability.
 

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Recommend a make/model chain?

Thanks again, Spunout, but can you (or anyone else) recommend a specific chain? The LeMond specs say the one that came stock on my bike is a "Campagnolo, 10 speed." Um, okay. I have a SRAM with the quick-connect link on my Shimano 8-speed bike, but AFAIK those aren't available for 10-speed.

You mention the Wipperman Connex link, but I couldn't tell if that's the chain you were suggesting. And some of the reviews I've read on Wipperman chains haven't inspired much confidence.

Low price is not necessarily a criteria but FWIW, I'm not much into braggin' rights and I'm certainly not a weight weenie. I just want a good, dependable chain that'll shift smoothly and last a reasonable length of time.

(Forgive me for being a little dense but Campy is a whole new world for me ...)
 

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no great gift, but i happen to know well what is in both...

lessee howit it looks in the big ring/small cog, this is a gear you might have occasion to use, too.

you will need to take the pic with the bike shown on level ground for accurate reference.

if you want, then we can see how the manual specs (guidelines, yes,) apply in this case...

Spunout said:
I wouldn't know what is in a shimano manual.

Of course it is out of spec! But it works. Brimstone does not fall from the sky and the bike doesn't blow up. That was my point.

Second point, is that you have to make sure that the extremes work because you WILL accidentally shift into it at some time.
 

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Allez Rouge said:
Thanks again, Spunout, but can you (or anyone else) recommend a specific chain?
Campag 10 spacing and cog widths is very similar (especially cog widths) to Shimano 9 speed.

Because of this the high end SRAM 9 speed chains work well, they use flush outer plates where the rivets do not extend past the plate. The 991 Hollowpin, or older PC99 Hollowpins are the ones to get. The lower end chains do work, but in my experience run very loud and shifting is not great.

The best performace comes with Campagnolo 10 speed chains though. They last about twice as long as anything else, they shift great, and if lubed correctly they run reasonably quietly. They cost a lot, but since they last longer they still are good value.
 
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