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chamois creme addict
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just finished setting up my first set of Campy Ergo shifters with the Quick Shift mechanism, Chorus QS shifters with a Centaur QS front derailleur.

I have to say, the QS effect is pretty minimal at best, plus it is very sensitive to setup compared to a regular Ergo/FD combo. Every pre-QS system I have built is sort of "set the inner stop, clamp the cable, set the outer stop, done". On the QS, I found the main problem is the different cable attachment compared to older front derailleurs (2003 vintage). The older FDs had the cable come up from the bottom and attach in an almost vertical line at the pinch bolt. The QS derailleur has the cable bend over to the outside near the top and attach at about 30 degrees above horizontal. This makes it very difficult to get a lot of tension in the cable. This was my main problem in my setup, the cable tension has to be set a little higher than normal to get full movement in the first click. Thankfully the frame I was building had barrel adjusters, good luck building a frame with no barrel adjuster cable stops and Campy QS!

In the end, yes the lever movement is slightly lighter. Of course with new cables, new shifters and a perfectly clean cable guide beneath the BB, I would expect it to feel better than my other bikes. Adjusted properly, the shifter requires 5 clicks to cover the double chainring range so in theory it should be possible to use a pre-QS Ergo shifter and a QS FD and not have to double pump the lever. But it would just be better to use a non-QS derailleur.
 

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Looking for my Amish Love
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I would try adjusting your setup again. It should take 3-4 (3 on my ride) clicks to shift the Front D on a double. You say you have the centuar front D, as did I on one bike. I found that the shifting on the Centaur QS is far inferior to the chorus QS.

You said: "The QS derailleur has the cable bend over to the outside near the top and attach at about 30 degrees above horizontal." Are you referring to the little tab near the cable anchor bolt? The cable does not bend over that but goes inside of it. Look at the instruction .pdf & blow up the view to see more clearly how to attach the cable.
 

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chamois creme addict
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
capt_phun said:
I would try adjusting your setup again. It should take 3-4 (3 on my ride) clicks to shift the Front D on a double. You say you have the centuar front D, as did I on one bike. I found that the shifting on the Centaur QS is far inferior to the chorus QS.

You said: "The QS derailleur has the cable bend over to the outside near the top and attach at about 30 degrees above horizontal." Are you referring to the little tab near the cable anchor bolt? The cable does not bend over that but goes inside of it. Look at the instruction .pdf & blow up the view to see more clearly how to attach the cable.
I had a look at the PDFs of the derailleur, but they are pretty much sketches and don't show the derailleur in detail. If you look at the derailleur from behind (at the anchor bolt but with the bolt removed), the little tab sits at roughly 8 o'clock. Above it is a groove that is obviously for the cable, it runs from 9 o'clock to 2 o'clock. So I definitely think the cable runs above the little tab and in the groove. I tried running it the other way and it definitely looked wrong.

I'm still not 100% happy with the front shifting. My full setup is Chorus QS Ergo, Centaur QS front derailleur, braze-on with Campy braze-on adapter for 35 mm seat tube, chain is Chorus UN, crankset is 2006 Chorus 53-39 (pre-Ultra Torque w/ alloy arms and square taper BB).

I'm wondering if the Centaur QS derailleur is configured slightly differently in geometry compared to the Chorus and Record, to accomodate the different shifting with the Centaur Escape mechanism. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get a Chorus QS front derailleur in the correct clamp size.
 

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Eric_H said:
I had a look at the PDFs of the derailleur, but they are pretty much sketches and don't show the derailleur in detail. If you look at the derailleur from behind (at the anchor bolt but with the bolt removed), the little tab sits at roughly 8 o'clock. Above it is a groove that is obviously for the cable, it runs from 9 o'clock to 2 o'clock. So I definitely think the cable runs above the little tab and in the groove. I tried running it the other way and it definitely looked wrong.

QUOTE]
This picture sucks but I hope if sums up what I am trying to say about that little tab at 8 0'clock. 3 clicks is all it should take to shift front D.
 

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chamois creme addict
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Have a look at these pics

capt_phun said:
This picture sucks but I hope if sums up what I am trying to say about that little tab at 8 0'clock. 3 clicks is all it should take to shift front D.
Your artwork is much better than mine. The only critique I have is that the "tab is probably a little lower and in the right diagram the cable passes over top of it and then across and on an upward angle.

After some picture scouring on cyclingnews.com I submit the following:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...features/hoste_ridley_roubaix/gbHosteRidley13

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2.../2007/tech/probikes/rujano_canyon07/_DSC3063U

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2...tech/features/ballan_leroi_roubaix/gbBallan13

The last picture really shows the routing as I see it. When the front derailleur is at the inner limit, the cable goes over the top of the tab and exits angle slightly up from horizontal on the lever arm of the derailleur. At any rate, I have ordered a Chorus 35 mm clamp-on derailleur in the non-Quick Shift version. Everything I have read says that the non-QS derailleur works fine with the QS ergo, only the shifting force is a little higher because of the shorter lever arm. The QS Ergo shifter pulls the same amount of cable as the older non-QS Ergo, so in theory the front shifting should be the same as pre-2007. I actually prefer to have a non-QS front derailleur, because if I needed to swap out my left shifter (crash for example) I have several pre-QS Ergopower shifters.

I'll report back, but does any third party want to jump in here and confirm which cable routing is correct?

Edit: Maybe I am just stupid. This really should not seem so hard!
 

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There should be a groove in the FD arm which makes it very obvious where the cable goes. Take the cable fixing bolt out and look at it.
 

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agree...

Spunout said:
There should be a groove in the FD arm which makes it very obvious where the cable goes. Take the cable fixing bolt out and look at it.
The cable will always comes over the left side of the bolt and fits into a small groove in the arm. If there is a tab, the cable goes under it, between the tab and the clamp bolt, not over it.

The QS ergo pulls the same amount of cable per click, it just engages the cable sooner. If the QS FD has a longer lever arm, it must take more clicks to operate than a non-QS model. The long lever arm is what creates the lower operating force. The non-QS FDs should take three clicks to cover their full travel.

The fact that Campy warns that a QS FD with a non-QS shifter might require two strokes of the finger lever suggests that it take 5 clicks or more to operate a QS FD. The older, non-QS ergo will execute 5 clicks with one sweep of the finger lever. 5 clicks are used when shifting from the little ring to the middle ring on a triple. Triple FDs are all non-QS and still work with QS shifter. I suspect the QS shifter will execute at least 6 clicks with one sweep of the lever, due to the quicker engagement. I'll have one today or tomorrow and report.
 

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chamois creme addict
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the reply

C-40 said:
The cable will always comes over the left side of the bolt and fits into a small groove in the arm. If there is a tab, the cable goes under it, between the tab and the clamp bolt, not over it.

The QS ergo pulls the same amount of cable per click, it just engages the cable sooner. If the QS FD has a longer lever arm, it must take more clicks to operate than a non-QS model. The long lever arm is what creates the lower operating force. The non-QS FDs should take three clicks to cover their full travel.

The fact that Campy warns that a QS FD with a non-QS shifter might require two strokes of the finger lever suggests that it take 5 clicks or more to operate a QS FD. The older, non-QS ergo will execute 5 clicks with one sweep of the finger lever. 5 clicks are used when shifting from the little ring to the middle ring on a triple. Triple FDs are all non-QS and still work with QS shifter. I suspect the QS shifter will execute at least 6 clicks with one sweep of the lever, due to the quicker engagement. I'll have one today or tomorrow and report.
Regarding the cable routing, I really think I can look at a derailleur and know how to route the cable as I've been doing bike mechanics for quite a long time. There are some good drawings on the Campagnolo spares webpage:

http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares07_A_0307.pdf
front derailleur pages start on p. 40 of the document

In the case of my Centaur QS front derailleur, the cable groove seems a little more horizontal when the derailleur is at the inner limit. Looking at the .pdf files, would you all agree the cable goes in the groove, on the outside of the tab? I mean, it seems pretty obvious yet I am wondering why the front shifting was so lousy on this setup.

C-40, regarding the total number of clicks on the QS Ergo, I'll check tonight but I recall it is 5 clicks in one sweep, I don't think there is a 6th click. And I was needing just a little bit of the 5th click to shift the QS derailleur from small to large.
 

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Just looking at the spares diagram/pdf, the groove looks more consistent with capt_phun's left diagram than the right one (which I understand you feel is a little off).

But I don't have this FD to look at. Agree that you pix from cyclingnews make it look like those FD's were installed with the wire coming almost horizontally into the pinch bolt.

Shame on Campy for not supplying clear cable routing instructions with the new FD.
 

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about QS..

I just got my Record QS levers and they have the same 5-click ability that they've always had, but the finger lever engages sooner (less dead movment).

I'll agree about this "tab" now that I've looked at the picture. It looks like it's there to get the cable aligned at the bottom of the groove. The cable would not be routed inside the tab, or it wouldn't align with the groove.
 

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C-40 said:
I'll agree about this "tab" now that I've looked at the picture. It looks like it's there to get the cable aligned at the bottom of the groove. The cable would not be routed inside the tab, or it wouldn't align with the groove.
With the help of 300% magnification in adobe reader, I see the same.
 

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The cable goes inbetween the tab and then is clamped by the bolt. The reason the groove is curved is that when you pull on the cable during installation, you pull it towards you on a horizontal plane to get the cable behind the bolt & line up in the groove.

If you pull the cable OVER the tab, it will fall off over time & then your cable tension will be too loose. The tab is there to provide an anchor to bend the cable against when you pull the cable during initial setup.
 
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