Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright this is my first post so dont beat me up to bad. Im currently running Shimano 105 and looking to upgrade to Campy. Ive been looking online and was wondering 1) how hard that would be and 2) Is there a difference between QS and not QS campy. I was looking to go full record or chorus and was curious about the QS thing and whether or not all the components have to be QS compatible. Thanks for any help.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,161 Posts
info...

You can search the forum for answers, but here's the facts. You're getting into Campy 10 just before it changes to 11 speed this fall. A whole lot of components will not be compatible with 11 speed. At that time, there will be a lot of blowout sales on shifters, cranks and derailleurs.

To answer the question about QS, the only thing it does is allow the left finger lever that operates the FD, to engage the cable sooner, eliminating some dead travel that is present in earlier models. The QS FD has a slight longer lever arm and requires one more click of the finger lever to cover the required range of travel (4 instead of 3). The longer lever arm reduces the effort required to move the finger lever, by a small amount. All versions of shifters and FDs are fully compatible.

Whatever you do, don't buy 2007 or later Centaur or lower level shifters with the escape mechanism. It will be all but gone next year. Pay the extra cost to at least get Chorus shifters.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for your help on this one. Im planning on going full record especially with the blowouts that are bound to happen. So if I understand you correctly QS is only for the FD correct? Your answer really helps. Also then, since Im coming from shimano is it better to get the whole record gruppo before switching?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,161 Posts
more...

TricksterG said:
Thanks for your help on this one. Im planning on going full record especially with the blowouts that are bound to happen. So if I understand you correctly QS is only for the FD correct? Your answer really helps. Also then, since Im coming from shimano is it better to get the whole record gruppo before switching?
Yes, QS only affects the FD. If you're switching, I'd buy the whole thing. Then you get the full Campy experience, not tainted with mismatched parts.

I bought my first Campy UT compact cranks this season, but opted for a Chorus crank. It's not worth $200 more to save 40 grams and the graphics are so minimal, you have to look close to tell whether I've got Record or Chorus.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah thats what I was figuring as I believed that campy and shimano werent comp in the first place. Im probably going to buy them bit by bit as I cant just flat out buy the full gruppo in one shot but I will end up getting all record, but maybe the chorus cranks. :) Thanks for the heads up on that one.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Another quick question, since you have been helpful on this. What is Record Red? I understand that its geared towards racing but thats about it.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
C-40 said:
Whatever you do, don't buy 2007 or later Centaur or lower level shifters with the escape mechanism. It will be all but gone next year. Pay the extra cost to at least get Chorus shifters.
When you say "all but gone" do you mean that they're changing the design (yet again), or that the durability is poor and won't last a year? Just curious.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
TricksterG said:
Another quick question, since you have been helpful on this. What is Record Red? I understand that its geared towards racing but thats about it.
Red has a stiffer spring and metal spring retainer where the non-red has a plastic retainer. This is in the rear shifter only, and the "upgrade" can be purchased for less than a hundred bucks.

Do the non-red plastic retainers fail? I have never heard of one failing, but I suppose anything is possible.

Are the non-red shifters like shifting a limp noodle and the firmer springs are necessary? That depends on your taste, but I feel that non-red is as firm (possibly firmer) than Shimano, but I guess some guys want a crisper shift.

While you are discussing Chorus vs. Record. Take a look at the derailers too. There is a premium price difference for a rather small weight difference. Record is a nice experience, but I doubt many riders can tell the difference.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
unit said:
Red has a stiffer spring and metal spring retainer where the non-red has a plastic retainer. This is in the rear shifter only, and the "upgrade" can be purchased for less than a hundred bucks.

Do the non-red plastic retainers fail? I have never heard of one failing, but I suppose anything is possible.

Are the non-red shifters like shifting a limp noodle and the firmer springs are necessary? That depends on your taste, but I feel that non-red is as firm (possibly firmer) than Shimano, but I guess some guys want a crisper shift.

While you are discussing Chorus vs. Record. Take a look at the derailers too. There is a premium price difference for a rather small weight difference. Record is a nice experience, but I doubt many riders can tell the difference.
Thanks for the help on this that really cleared it up a lot. So ultimately its just a stiffer response. I agree on the Chorus vs Record as thats what I have been looking to do. Would you say staying with Record for Shifters, brakes etc and getting a Chorus deraileur setup would be a good way to go?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
329 Posts
TricksterG said:
Thanks for the help on this that really cleared it up a lot. So ultimately its just a stiffer response. I agree on the Chorus vs Record as thats what I have been looking to do. Would you say staying with Record for Shifters, brakes etc and getting a Chorus deraileur setup would be a good way to go?
Yes, I would say that. In fact that is basically what I did recently on a build.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
515 Posts
Campy upgrade

TricksterG said:
Yeah thats what I was figuring as I believed that campy and shimano werent comp in the first place. Im probably going to buy them bit by bit as I cant just flat out buy the full gruppo in one shot but I will end up getting all record, but maybe the chorus cranks. :) Thanks for the heads up on that one.
Not to dissuade you from a complete upgrade, but note that Campy bits play very nice with Shimano cranks and brakes.

I run Chorus brifters, Centaur FD, Chorus RD modified with the titanium bolts (vs. cromoly) from an old Record RD, Chorus cassette, Veloce UD chain. A great, cost-effective setup.

Note that you will need a new rear wheel to accomodate the Campy cassette, unless your particular wheel manufacturer sells a Campy freehub body separately that you or your LBS can install. I have an Easton Orion II rear wheel with a Campy-compatible freehub (set up with a 13/29 cassette for hill rides), and a Campy Neutron with a 12/25 cassette for everyday rides. I use an Ultegra 6600 53/39 crank (external bearings), b/c it is stiff, cheap (relatively), and has been flawless.

Someday I'll follow C-40's lead and get a Campy UT crankset--partly for the weight savings and partly for the aesthetics. From what I've read, they are nearly as trouble-free as the Shimano cranks. I've read lots of horror stories about other cranksets (FSA, etc.), though SRAM seems to be o.k. after some early issues.

You can also use Shimano brakes with Campy brifters no problem. I ran older Ultegra calipers for a few years with Chours brifters and they worked great. Finally installed some Veloce "skelaton" brakes 'cause I got a good deal (well under $100 for a pair) and thought they looked cool. You can still find older-style Chorus (non-skelaton) brakes around on the web for under $100, and maybe even some Record calipers, too. One nice thing about the Campy brakes is that they use a single-pivot design for the rear, since that brake requires less mechanical leverage (physics of braking). I feel this give a slightly more balanced emergency-stop performance, but its subtle. Shimano makes great brakes.

The point is you don't have to go all-or-nothing if money is an issue. Even C-40 is experimenting with KMC chains! Plenty of posts here on alternatives for closing Campy chains as well.

Check out Probikekit.com and Lickbike.com for good prices on Campy components. I've had good luck with ebay for the wheels, or try neuvation.com.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
drewmcg said:
Not to dissuade you from a complete upgrade, but note that Campy bits play very nice with Shimano cranks and brakes.

I run Chorus brifters, Centaur FD, Chorus RD modified with the titanium bolts (vs. cromoly) from an old Record RD, Chorus cassette, Veloce UD chain. A great, cost-effective setup.

Note that you will need a new rear wheel to accomodate the Campy cassette, unless your particular wheel manufacturer sells a Campy freehub body separately that you or your LBS can install. I have an Easton Orion II rear wheel with a Campy-compatible freehub (set up with a 13/29 cassette for hill rides), and a Campy Neutron with a 12/25 cassette for everyday rides. I use an Ultegra 6600 53/39 crank (external bearings), b/c it is stiff, cheap (relatively), and has been flawless.

Someday I'll follow C-40's lead and get a Campy UT crankset--partly for the weight savings and partly for the aesthetics. From what I've read, they are nearly as trouble-free as the Shimano cranks. I've read lots of horror stories about other cranksets (FSA, etc.), though SRAM seems to be o.k. after some early issues.

You can also use Shimano brakes with Campy brifters no problem. I ran older Ultegra calipers for a few years with Chours brifters and they worked great. Finally installed some Veloce "skelaton" brakes 'cause I got a good deal (well under $100 for a pair) and thought they looked cool. You can still find older-style Chorus (non-skelaton) brakes around on the web for under $100, and maybe even some Record calipers, too. One nice thing about the Campy brakes is that they use a single-pivot design for the rear, since that brake requires less mechanical leverage (physics of braking). I feel this give a slightly more balanced emergency-stop performance, but its subtle. Shimano makes great brakes.

The point is you don't have to go all-or-nothing if money is an issue. Even C-40 is experimenting with KMC chains! Plenty of posts here on alternatives for closing Campy chains as well.

Check out Probikekit.com and Lickbike.com for good prices on Campy components. I've had good luck with ebay for the wheels, or try neuvation.com.
Man I am sure learning a lot! Yeah I was planning on running a mixture of campy and I was even looking at an FSA crank. What kind of problems have people encountered running Campy and FSA? That makes me have to re-evalute now! I am aware of the new wheelset ( I was planning on eventually getting Mavic Kysyrium Elites but thats in the future). This has kind of become my project and Im slowly but surely outfitting my bike. I upgraded from an older Scattante XRL to a 08 Fuji Team model. Great frame, just need a better gruppo.
 

· RBR Veteran Opinionater
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
These anticipated "blow-outs" either: a. never materialize, b. are defined by people who have a different definition of "blow-out" than I.

You'll be able to get 10 gear and parts for years. Check ebay for a campy 8 spd cassette - bet you'll find at least one, maybe even a new one.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
515 Posts
TricksterG said:
Man I am sure learning a lot! Yeah I was planning on running a mixture of campy and I was even looking at an FSA crank. What kind of problems have people encountered running Campy and FSA? That makes me have to re-evalute now! I am aware of the new wheelset ( I was planning on eventually getting Mavic Kysyrium Elites but thats in the future). This has kind of become my project and Im slowly but surely outfitting my bike. I upgraded from an older Scattante XRL to a 08 Fuji Team model. Great frame, just need a better gruppo.
The problem is not FSA with Campy. The problem is that cranksets are a high-stress, hi-tech critical component. I mean, you squeeze the brakes every now and then, but that crank has to bear all your leg strength, and sometimes your entire body weight, at 90 rpm, and is exposed to lots of water, grime, etc. . . .

See here: http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/cranksets/fsa/PRD_335457_2491crx.aspx for one FSA crank: 1.63 rating based on 27 reviews (most of any FSA crank) at roadbikereview.com=abysmal. The Shimano and Campys do not rank below 3.0, and that's their lower-end stuff. Shimano, Campy, and now SRAM put a ton of R & D into their cranks, patent their engineering inovations, and get the manufacturing right. Its hard for lesser players to replicate this level of resource allocation to this critical component.

So if you want to upgrade gradually, keep your 105 brake calipers and crankset for now, get Chorus brifters and cables, get a Chorus or Record RD, get a Chorus or Centaur cassette, and get a Centaur or Chorus FD. Get a Veloce UN chain from probikekit.com (optional, but recommended--better yet get two and rotate them) and you're off to the races. Consider a Centaur or Chorus UT carbon crankset when they're back in stock at probikekit.com. Decide now if you're going to go compact or traditional on the cranks/chainrings, so that you get the correct rear cassette gearing. If you decide that you might want to run a 13/29 Campy cassette, you probably should order a medium cage RD.

Shimano and Campy do cranks best; SRAM seems to be right up there.
 

· Roadie with unshaven legs
Joined
·
2,041 Posts
I have run the QS and non-QS front shifter with all kinds of front derailleurs with out any real issues. Shimano, old and new Campy. No problem!

The rear shifter is a whole different issue. You match the shifter to the derailleur to the cassette and it works great. Trying to mix-and-match works if you get the combination right but won't if you don't.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
drewmcg said:
The problem is not FSA with Campy. The problem is that cranksets are a high-stress, hi-tech critical component. I mean, you squeeze the brakes every now and then, but that crank has to bear all your leg strength, and sometimes your entire body weight, at 90 rpm, and is exposed to lots of water, grime, etc. . . .

See here: http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/drivetrain/cranksets/fsa/PRD_335457_2491crx.aspx for one FSA crank: 1.63 rating based on 27 reviews (most of any FSA crank) at roadbikereview.com=abysmal. The Shimano and Campys do not rank below 3.0, and that's their lower-end stuff. Shimano, Campy, and now SRAM put a ton of R & D into their cranks, patent their engineering inovations, and get the manufacturing right. Its hard for lesser players to replicate this level of resource allocation to this critical component.

So if you want to upgrade gradually, keep your 105 brake calipers and crankset for now, get Chorus brifters and cables, get a Chorus or Record RD, get a Chorus or Centaur cassette, and get a Centaur or Chorus FD. Get a Veloce UN chain from probikekit.com (optional, but recommended--better yet get two and rotate them) and you're off to the races. Consider a Centaur or Chorus UT carbon crankset when they're back in stock at probikekit.com. Decide now if you're going to go compact or traditional on the cranks/chainrings, so that you get the correct rear cassette gearing. If you decide that you might want to run a 13/29 Campy cassette, you probably should order a medium cage RD.

Shimano and Campy do cranks best; SRAM seems to be right up there.
That makes perfect sense. Another one for you though, though this is probably simple. Whats the difference between English and Italian BB and how do you know what you have? Difference of Medium and short RD cage?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,161 Posts
info....

TricksterG said:
That makes perfect sense. Another one for you though, though this is probably simple. Whats the difference between English and Italian BB and how do you know what you have? Difference of Medium and short RD cage?
The only frames commonly using Italian threading are either Italian in origin or Merckx. Even some Italian brands have switched to English threading. The threading specs are most often written on the face of the right BB cup.

A medium cage RD has more wrap capacity to handle a 13-29 cassette or triples, except those with a 13-29, which requires a long cage.


http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bottom
 

· Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
"Blowouts" already starting

Competitive Cyclist has already reduced their Record group components by a pretty good amount - I believe all of the stuff is lower than their Chorus pricing. It could go lower closer to the release of the 09 stuff, but who knows.

Sounds like you know what you want to do, but I have QS and pre-QS and definitely notice the difference with the QS as far as the ease/quickness of FD shifts. The FD was redesigned for 08 and may be even better with QS than my 07 FD.

Think you still have to buy an entire group to get the red record if they are still available - Competitive Cyclist offerred the shifters by themselves for awhile, but it does not look like they are available anymore. Cost differential was pretty big.

Good luck
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top