[pakratt99]

So I've been a lurker here for a while now and have learned quite a bit from reading others posts. I am a 21 year old male of about 140lbs 5' 9" and have been on a road bike for a bit over a year now. I currentley attend Clarkson University which means I am a poor college student which will be important later on in my discussion. I used to race xc mountain bikes and then that got old as my friends took up other persuits. I have since converted to road bike as I enjoy it more on a solo basis and I have met a bunch of people with whom I now ride.

I started off with a Kona Haole at the beginning of last year which was full 105 then upgraded to a Specialized Allez Comp which was full Ultegra. I have now pretty much figured out what I like and am going to build up a Cinelli Starship but am at a loss for what to do with componentry. I really like the Carbon Record 10spd stuff but also like the new Dura Ace 10. I have never ridden a campy equipped bike but have always heard their the best but I'm not really sure.

I know that campy seems to have a cult following but it sometimes seems to be more of an "I'm better than you because I have campy and you don't" sort of following. I don't really care about ego's or which is old school and cool or better just because its Italian. I am really concerned with functionality and a little bit of style. I will give it up that the Carbon Record does look better and I do also realize that their is a price gap between it and the Dura Ace 10. But if price wasn't a concern which way would people go for functionality and durability. I would really like to hear some real world ideas and not ego's coming through. If someone who was on both which were properley set up and could give me an honest opinion of each and compare the benefits of either it would be great .

 

[terry b]

I currently own bikes with Record, DA9 and Chorus.

I prefer Campy for two very simple reasons - 1-I like the thumb shifters and 2-I prefer the hidden cable routing. Real world reasons.

I don't dislike my DA9 and I will not replace it merely to have Campy on those bikes. The only reason I would ever build another DA bike would be to try out DA10.

Chorus has always been my overall favorite, mainly because I preferred the look and feel of the alloy levers. Now that they're gone, it's a toss up. If I'm building a "dream" bike, maybe I'll use Record, if I'm building a "regular" bike, I will use Chorus. Dream bikes are few and far between though.

I would not even consider buying below these three, simply because I am a snob and anything less than the top keeps me awake at night.

 

[10kman]

Go shimano......

Like you said, it's more of a "look at me, i have campy" cult, rather than a "this is so dang much better that i can't believe it" cult.

Shimano works just fine, even though I hate shimano with a passion, I try to build up my MTB's with little/no shimano parts (usually cassettes ONLY). Their road stuff is fine, it's smooth, it'll last a heck of a long time, and since you are a poor college student, it's cheaper.

I use shimano on my roadie bikes, it's just more cost effective. If I had disposable income (ie - i could buy a house a day and not care), maybe i'd try the campy stuff.

Take the money you save from using DA rather than Record and get a nice handlebar or some nice sidi shoes, something like that. You'll be happier.

 

[Bonked]

personally, they are both great groups that function extremely well but, if you are even a little concerned about style, the choice is obvious...da may work well, but it just doesn't look good hanging on a frame! if you are going for function, it is probably a toss-up and will mainly be determined by which shifting you prefer. if you are going for style...campy all the way. especially on an italian frame...

one other important difference that may or may not be critical, but you can shift across multiple cogs with one motion with campy but not shimano. i.e. to go from biggest cog to littlest cog with campy is one (maybe two) motions, while with shimano it is 9.

also, are you going to be racing? if so, you might want to consider the cost of crashing your dream bike!

good luck!

 

[Bocephus Jones]

So I've been a lurker here for a while now and have learned quite a bit from reading others posts. I am a 21 year old male of about 140lbs 5' 9" and have been on a road bike for a bit over a year now. I currentley attend Clarkson University which means I am a poor college student which will be important later on in my discussion. I used to race xc mountain bikes and then that got old as my friends took up other persuits. I have since converted to road bike as I enjoy it more on a solo basis and I have met a bunch of people with whom I now ride.

I started off with a Kona Haole at the beginning of last year which was full 105 then upgraded to a Specialized Allez Comp which was full Ultegra. I have now pretty much figured out what I like and am going to build up a Cinelli Starship but am at a loss for what to do with componentry. I really like the Carbon Record 10spd stuff but also like the new Dura Ace 10. I have never ridden a campy equipped bike but have always heard their the best but I'm not really sure.

I know that campy seems to have a cult following but it sometimes seems to be more of an "I'm better than you because I have campy and you don't" sort of following. I don't really care about ego's or which is old school and cool or better just because its Italian. I am really concerned with functionality and a little bit of style. I will give it up that the Carbon Record does look better and I do also realize that their is a price gap between it and the Dura Ace 10. But if price wasn't a concern which way would people go for functionality and durability. I would really like to hear some real world ideas and not ego's coming through. If someone who was on both which were properley set up and could give me an honest opinion of each and compare the benefits of either it would be great .

My opinion? A college student should save his $ and get something a little lower on the food chain than D/A or Record. Both are way overkill and only justifiable to those with lots of discretionary income or a need to have the "best". That said...Campy would be my choice for sure. I have Chorus 10 now and it has been great.

 

[bsdc]

Campy Rules!

Function: That's a matter of opinion, so here's mine. I'm a recent Campy convert. I was riding Dura-Ace and liked it, but I wasn't comfortable riding on the hoods. I test rode a Campy bike and the hoods fit like a glove. I don't like the thumb shifters quite as well. I do like the crisp shifting. The Campy brakes seem stronger too. I recently got back on my DA bike to do a side by side comparison. The DA shifting and breaking seemed soft, vague, and squishy to me. That completed my conversion. They both function well. I just like the feel of Campy better.

Durability: You're at the top of the line from both manufacturers. The difference between the two is small.

 

[bsdc]

My opinion? A college student should save his $ and get something a little lower on the food chain than D/A or Record. Both are way overkill and only justifiable to those with lots of discretionary income or a need to have the "best". That said...Campy would be my choice for sure. I have Chorus 10 now and it has been great.

I figured the guy couldn't be that poor if he was considering the top of the line. But you are right. I make a pretty good income and I ride 2003 Chorus. I just couldn't see paying the premium for Record. For that matter, Centaur would have been fine. And now with the 2004 Chorus, you can get the carbon look for less.

 

[Eric_H]

When I was a student....

....I could not have afforded Record or D/A . My first road bike (as a university student) was a 1993 Specialized Allez with 105 downtube shifters.

I am just switching over from D/A 9spd to Chorus/Record 10spd. One bike is new and just getting built, and my other bike is getting Campy as well. Why am I switching? After 10 years of Shimano bikes I decided to try something new, and I managed to get a good stock of cheap Campy 2003 stuff in the fall.

I personally don't think you can go wrong with either group. They are both pro-level and the best money can buy. One thing I have learned in my time with Shimano is never to buy a group in the first year of production, as they always have at least one part that is problematic and gets a running revision. With D/A 9spd it was pretty solid, though they did make running changes to the crank, the chain, the cassette and the shifters. They never did address the BB problem, but most people I know who actually rode in the real world (ie. rain) used Ultegra. Similar boo-boos and running changes have happened with the release of Ultegra and XTR.

That is not to say Campy has been perfect. Campy tends to evolve their groups over time, whereas Shimano will completely redo the group and then keep it the same for 6-7 years with small changes. D/A 7400 (8spd with STI) was produced for 6 years, D/A 7700 (9spd) was produced for 7 years. One disadvantage to the constant evolution of Campy is the backwards compatibility. 8spd hubs cannot do 9/10 spds, pre-2001 9spd is different than the current 9spd and so on. Not having a long history with it, I cannot speak for all the changes that have rendered previous parts obsolete. With Shimano a new group may obsolete a few items, but in general it will stay current for quite a few years.

One important thing to consider is the price. The Euro is very strong right now versus the US dollar, so Campy parts pricing is on the rise. Where it stops, who knows? Shimano pricing will probably stay a bit more stable.

 

[slide]

Can't go wrong with either group IMO. I've always like Campy better. I think the shifters are a more pleasing shape and they feel a lot better and more positive the Shimano. Shimano has always felt vague to me. But, with new DA Shimano is way ahead of Campy in the crank/BB department and I think that is deffinetly worth something. Also the new Shimano shifters have much better/crsiper shifting feel then the old ones did, it almost feels as good as Campy.

I'm a Campy fan but I'm riding Ultegra now and am pretty happy on it. I've also learned from friends that Campy can be expensive to repair. One guy had to replace bearings and cones in both his hubs. $70 wholesale for just those parts!!! That's a lot for bearings and cones. Now is seems Campy stuff is getting even more expensive with the current world economic situation.

If it were me, I'd be tempted to get Campy because of the style and history behind it all. From a pure performance standpoint I think DA 10 currently has the edge and is probably a little cheaper still.

 

[palewin]

Real differences are ergonomics and availability

Both DA & Record are equally reliable and function equally well. First, there is, as you noted, a price difference because the $ is weaker versus the Euro than it is against the Yen. Second, and I think most important, is how the brake/shift levers feel to you. As one who races (and therefore spends time down in the drops) I can shift the DA more easily from the drops, I had difficulty with the Campy thumb-shifters from that position. You should try it yourself and see which you like more. Lastly, in the U.S. at least, Shimano parts are usually a bit easier to find in smaller shops than Campy parts because they have a wider distribution network. I said "usually" because Shimano underestimated demand, and is having short-term supply problems with a lot of components. An earlier post said that Shimano doesn't let you shift multiple gears with a single movement - at least for the DA10 that is incorrect, a larger movement of the levers gives you a 3-sprocket jump. A last point sometimes mentioned is that Campy levers can be rebuilt, while Shimano cannot. Prior to upgrading to DA10, I had over 30K miles on my Ultegra shifters, without needing a rebuild, so I'm not sure how significant that feature is to you.

 

[divve]

It's the same as the current DA. It can shift multiple gears down but still only one gear at a time up. Campy shifts multiple gears both ways.

 

[xcmntgeek]

2004 DA all the way

I just got the 2004 DA and I am very convinced of it's cred. The shifters are slightly better than the previous model (more comfy). But, the crowning achievement of the new groupo is the cranks. They are noticably stiffer- a real jewel. That's my opinion, fwiw.

 

[werdna]

and why is crank stiffness so important?

I just got the 2004 DA and I am very convinced of it's cred. The shifters are slightly better than the previous model (more comfy). But, the crowning achievement of the new groupo is the cranks. They are noticably stiffer- a real jewel. That's my opinion, fwiw.

 

[pakratt99]

Thanks

Well I now might be more confused than I was before, but thats ok . Because everyone keeps asking how as a poor college student I might get the cash for some big money components, I am going for IT and did a bunch of website design and setup for a local bike shop. For this he is going to give me a full group at a very reasonable price, (like $500 for DA-10 or about $600 for the Record Carbon). So price isn't really a big issue and I want something that will last. I am looking at high end components because as someone before noted, I'm one of thoes people who dosen't sleep at night unless he has the best. The only problem I run into is that I don't know anyone with campy setup and I kind of worry because I have small hands and I have heard that in the drops the campy levers can be hard to reach.

 

[FrankDL]

'04 Da 10!

I got an '04 TREK 5900 ultralight for xmas/bday and love the Shimano DA10. I took two test rides with a LOOK equiped with Campy, and while it was a good ride and you can fine tune the shifting, I still like the Shimano 10 better. I guess if it's good enough for Lance and 5 tour wins, it's good enough for me! Just my $.02 worth.

Best,
Frank

 

[divve]

I suggest you take a test ride on both. Personally, I can't stand the Shimano hoods and the new ones are worst for me. The shifting feel is really good however. I got '03 XTR on my MTB of which DA10 is technology based on. Shifts are flawless, smoother than Record, but not quite as quick, and less direct.

 

[C-40]

you mean old 9-speed DuraAce???

Take the money you save from using DA rather than Record and get a nice handlebar or some nice sidi shoes, something like that. You'll be happier.[/QUOTE]


New DuraAce 10 costs more than Campy Record 10 at the present time.

You also forget that Campy offers the excellent Chorus 10-speed group which is similar in price to the DA 9-speed. A much better value IMO. The 10-speed groups are current technology. It won't be long before DA 9 shifters won't be readily available. Then you're stuck with outdated stuff that you can't get fixed. You won't have that problem with Campy. Even the oldest 9-speed ergo levers can be cheaply converted to 10-speed and overhauled at the same time. Try repairing a broken Shimano shifter.

 

[10kman]

I'm looking at NOT RETAIL prices, IE - finding a private dealer and buying. Shimano DA is way cheaper even on ebay than the new Record stuff.

I know this because i'm in the midst of a rebuild, and have been researching heavily for the best prices.

 

[xcmntgeek]

and why is crank stiffness so important?

-Yea, yea, yea this argument has been around (and I'm sure it will keep circling and hit someone again). Although, I don't see how the stiffness can be a problem. Here's my take:

While I was waiting for my new Orbea to come in I rode my dad's CAAD 7 w/full 2003 DA so I got the chance to personally try the two crank systems back to back (actually in one day- morning ride on the C-dale and afternoon ride on the Orbea). All I know is that the new cranks felt noticably stiffer and smoother. I would stand out of a corner, or in a 56kph sprint and they would go. It gave you a very connected feeling.

The bikes are quite similar as well so I don't think there is much of a variable there (both full Al, same size).

I like Campy and I've had the opportunity to race on it, but I like Shimano more. When I raced on Campy (granted it was only for a few crits on a borrowed bike), I didn't like how you couldn't micro adjust the brakes as you rode or the shifting system- IMO shimano is easier to shift from both the drops and the hoods.

One last thing is that I disn't like having to release my thumbs grip on the bar to shift the inside lever and I would hate to do so in a crit. It's all personal preferance, but the Shimano is definitly some sweet stuff.

 

[xcmntgeek]

. "It won't be long before DA 9 shifters won't be readily available"

How is that so? It's still possible to get 8speed XTR stuff fairly easily and 8speed DA. Plus, a lot of people don't have the components on their biek long enough for that to matter.