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Looking at spending in the 400 range for a set that will work my my new campy group... wondeirng about the proton and scirocco... any thoughts on these or other campy wheelsets in this range...

thanks
 

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I have Protons. No complaints.
 

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Both solid. 2006 Scirocco considerable improvement over 2005. 05 scirocco ~= 06 vento.

the scirocco will be a slightly harsher / stiffer ride.

All campy wheels are, as far as "botique wheels" go, some of the better ones out there.
 

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sciroccos are nice but...

they really shatter my back on rides longer than 60 miles thanks to the high profile and spoke tension... else they are fast, indestructable and roll very smooth thanks to the campag hubs. They are 95% performance of the the Eurus and just a wee bit heavier...
 

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Protons are bomber

I've been riding a pair of Protons for about 5000 miles now, and they are still perfectly true. I weigh 185 lbs and have made no effort to baby the wheels, they are my evryday pair. Thumbs up! The hubs are smooth and easily servicable too.
 

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Argentius said:
Both solid. 2006 Scirocco considerable improvement over 2005. 05 scirocco ~= 06 vento.
.
I agree. I'll also add, the 06 Ventos are great. It's hard to mount a tire the first time, but the tires stretch, then it's no big deal. Other than that one caveat, I recommend them as a good solid training wheel. I should mention though that I only have 2000 miles on mine so far, so it is a limited test.
 

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Wheel "comfort" and "compliance" is a non-issue for wire spoke wheels

Argentius said:
Both solid. 2006 Scirocco considerable improvement over 2005. 05 scirocco ~= 06 vento.

the scirocco will be a slightly harsher / stiffer ride.
Why do people believe that a wheel with a deep rim will necessarily be stiffer? I've got several wheels with rims with a variety of depths, including 42mm deep 12/16 spoke Campagnolo Shamal, 34mm deep original 20 spoke Campagnolo Scirroco, 30mm deep 18/24 spoke Velocity Deep Vs, 25 mm deep 24/28 spoke Sun Venus, 20mm deep 32 spoke Mavic Open4CDs, and 16mm deep 28/32 spoke Velocity Razors, and I can't tell a difference between any of them in terms of vertical stiffness.

When you consider the actual vertical stiffness of tension spoke wheels, it is becomes apparant why I can't tell the difference - they are all so very stiff vertically, they might as well be absolutely rigid. Data in Francois Grignon's wheel test and in Bob Bundy's rec.bicycles.tech FAQ entry for vertical stiffness, it can be seen that wheels have a vertical stiffness in the range of 10,000 - 20,000 lb/in., which is about 2 orders of magnitude stiffer than the tires. When you combine the vertical flex in all the components in the load path (tires, fork, handlebars & stem, saddle & seatpost, etc.), it can be seen that vertical flex of the wheels is lost in the noise. A few psi difference in pressure in the tires makes a bigger difference in vertical stiffness than the difference between the stiffest and least stiff wheels.

If you really want to get intot he nitty-gritty of vertical wheel flex, you'll notice that the stiffest wheels in Francois Grignon's test are actually the wheels with the lightest, shallowest rims. Why? Because that wheel had the most and the thickest spokes. Except for certain exceptions, the spokes contribute more to vertical stiffness than does the rim. Consider that stiffness of a single spokes is between 5,000 and 10,000 lb/in, whereas most rims only have stiffnesses of a few hundred lb/in., and you can understand why a whole set of spokes has a bigger effect on stiffness than the rim.
 

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Mark, we've been over this....

Mark McM said:
Why do people believe that a wheel with a deep rim will necessarily be stiffer? I've got several wheels with rims with a variety of depths, including 42mm deep 12/16 spoke Campagnolo Shamal, 34mm deep original 20 spoke Campagnolo Scirroco, 30mm deep 18/24 spoke Velocity Deep Vs, 25 mm deep 24/28 spoke Sun Venus, 20mm deep 32 spoke Mavic Open4CDs, and 16mm deep 28/32 spoke Velocity Razors, and I can't tell a difference between any of them in terms of vertical stiffness.

When you consider the actual vertical stiffness of tension spoke wheels, it is becomes apparant why I can't tell the difference - they are all so very stiff vertically, they might as well be absolutely rigid. Data in Francois Grignon's wheel test and in Bob Bundy's rec.bicycles.tech FAQ entry for vertical stiffness, it can be seen that wheels have a vertical stiffness in the range of 10,000 - 20,000 lb/in., which is about 2 orders of magnitude stiffer than the tires. When you combine the vertical flex in all the components in the load path (tires, fork, handlebars & stem, saddle & seatpost, etc.), it can be seen that vertical flex of the wheels is lost in the noise. A few psi difference in pressure in the tires makes a bigger difference in vertical stiffness than the difference between the stiffest and least stiff wheels.

If you really want to get intot he nitty-gritty of vertical wheel flex, you'll notice that the stiffest wheels in Francois Grignon's test are actually the wheels with the lightest, shallowest rims. Why? Because that wheel had the most and the thickest spokes. Except for certain exceptions, the spokes contribute more to vertical stiffness than does the rim. Consider that stiffness of a single spokes is between 5,000 and 10,000 lb/in, whereas most rims only have stiffnesses of a few hundred lb/in., and you can understand why a whole set of spokes has a bigger effect on stiffness than the rim.
Newtonian mechanics break down at bicycle speeds and STOF (special theory of feel) must be used to compute the betterness coefficient of a given bicycle accessory. Here http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=526037#poststop. Alienator and I derived the equations for speed increases. They can easily be applied to derive the comfort tensor and squishiness modulus. This is of course assuming flat space/perception. If you're smoking crack or taking too much Procrit, you'll have to use GTOF (general theory of feel) to compensate for any hallucinations or munchie breaks.
 
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