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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->I’ve got a set of Boyd Altamont wheels which are about three years old and only have about 5000 miles on them. The back wheel has developed two cracks about 1 inch long on each side of two spokes. Problem areas are about 120 degrees apart. The wheel is still fairly true. My question is should I back off the spoke tension where the cracks are and keep riding or should I immediately replace the rim? I’m not familiar with these newer type wheels and how they hold up in this situation. Wheels from twenty years ago with this problem would rapidly get worse. Another way to put it is can I expect a sudden failure of the rim or will it last awhile longer?<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException 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Define "awhile". It would certainly get you home, or probably through your weekend road trip, but it's going to fail eventually. I like my teeth and skin where they currently located, so if it was me, I'd consider it toast, plan on replacing it and not tempt fate.
 

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so, what is the life expectancy for a rim with two cracks, each an inch long...?

for me, it would be the time it takes to obtain a replacement.
 

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You don't tell us the spoke count or which side spokes the cracks appear, but regardless, scrap it.

You also don't tell us your weight or tires or riding terrain, or who built it, but regardless, scrap it.

Immediately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just checked the wheel again and the cracks are on the drive side and I found a third crack. I think it is time to take the wheel off before the crack population increases some more.
To answer the questions from post #4,Spoke count is 28. Wheels came directly from Boyd Cycling and I weigh about 190 pounds which is well below the weight limit of the wheels. I have not hit any pot holes or anything that could damage the rims. I ride on Vittoria 25 mm open corsa tires.

Unfortunately, the wheels have always had problems and I have not used them as planned. I have sent a email to Boyd Cycling about the situation but the warranty is only for two years. It's my understanding that they will rebuild it for $100 which is a good price for a new rim and build.

This rim was the first year the Altamont came out and the next year the rim was almost completely redesigned. Perhaps this kind of problem surfaced after the first year and that is the reason for the redesign.
 

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->I’ve got a set of Boyd Altamont wheels which are about three years old and only have about 5000 miles on them. The back wheel has developed two cracks about 1 inch long on each side of two spokes. Problem areas are about 120 degrees apart. The wheel is still fairly true. My question is should I back off the spoke tension where the cracks are and keep riding or should I immediately replace the rim? I’m not familiar with these newer type wheels and how they hold up in this situation. Wheels from twenty years ago with this problem would rapidly get worse. Another way to put it is can I expect a sudden failure of the rim or will it last awhile longer?<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" DefUnhideWhenUsed="true" DefSemiHidden="true" DefQFormat="false" DefPriority="99" LatentStyleCount="267"> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="0" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Normal"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="heading 1"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 2"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 3"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 4"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="9" QFormat="true" Name="heading 7"/> <w:LsdException 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I've cracked a few rims at the spoke holes over the years. Eventually the spoke will start to pull through and the wheel will go out of true. The wheel probably will not fail catastrophically but its not going to last long. With less spokes, the deterioration will be accelerated. There is no point in delaying - you need a new wheel
 

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Boyd Cycling owner
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I got the email you sent today and am in the process of responding. . but a couple things to point out.

There is a history of you posting about this wheel here (after emailing me promising to post all over the forums), and discussions of tweaking spoke tensions and such that could have led to the cracks over the three year period.

We had that version of the Altamont available for a little over 2 years, and kept the same dimensions (24mm wide, 30mm deep), but did move to a welded seam and tubeless rim bed as we saw the advantages of that.

The "problems" have been addressed in previous postings here over the years and were due to a harsh ride of the wheel by running a tire at very high PSI (where you suggested that you may want to lower the spoke tension), and then a broken spoke on the non drive side (could be tension related).
 

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wheelbuilder
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2,220 Posts
I remember those posts about changing the tension to change the the way the wheels ride. If I remember right, I advised against it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, there was a discussion about lowering the spoke tension to address the poor ride quality of the wheels but I took the advise of not lowering the tension. You might also recall that the wheel had two broken spokes and I took it to a wheel builder who replaced the spokes and checked the tension to your specs. The wheel has been fine since then and it remains true even with the cracks. The ride quality issue was resolved with the Vittoria tires and latex tubes. Highly recommend this combination. I was amazed at how the ride improved.

These wheels have had problems. I suppose just like there are "lemons" in cars and toasters, there can be lemon wheels. It happens all the time and I'm way past being angry about the wheels performance. I posted here just to see if the cracks could be a sudden failure issue and that has been answered and I await instructions about sending the wheel in for repair.

I just remembered something that might be of interest to those of you who recall the previous posts about the wheel. One of my questions at that time was why when the bike was on the bike stand and I spun up the bike wheel, the bike would jump up and down like no other bike wheel I have ever seen. I wish I would have taken a video of it to show how much the bike moved up and down. There were several answers as to why this could occur but none of them really answered the question and it was noted that a out of balance wheel really did not matter when on the road. The rear wheel had another problem with a bearing and Boyd Cycling admirably addressed that problem and sent me a new bearing, axle and freehub. After installing the parts, the wheel no longer jumped up and down on the stand. In fact, it was very smooth. So, it turns out the problem was simply that the axle had a very slight bend in it. I later put the axle in my drill press and checked it with a dial indicator and found it was off just a few thousands which I would not have thought could cause the problem. Drill press does have a slight amount of run out so I could not get a really accurate reading. So, check the axle if your have a bike that jumps around in a work stand.

So, this discussion is over and I hope everyone is having a great summer with lots of miles on your bikes. Did any of you see that video of the Astana rider climbing the 65% grade? Amazing!
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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So...inflate tires to high pressure. Discover ride quality isn't what you want. So then you wanted to lower the spoke tension to regain ride quality?!? Really?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I did not inflate the tires to a high pressure. Started with about 90 back and 80 front and then tried 85 back and 75 front. I don't consider that high pressure.

Yes, it was a dumb idea to reduce spoke tension but the ride was really harsh and I was very disappointed since the wheels were purchased for my long distance bike. I don't have a clue about what contributes to a wheels ride characteristics. Altamont design looks very similar to the HED wheels but HED wheels run very smooth.
 

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Enough with the passive aggressive BS and framing complaints as questions. We get it, you don't like your Boyd wheels. Move on. All you're doing at this point is cementing how disingenuous your act is.
 

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"I don't have a clue about what contributes to a wheels ride characteristics.".......then why on earth would you think that changing the tension of the spokes would yield a positive result????? About the only thing that will change the ride characteristics of a specific set of wheels once they are built is the tire/tube set up and air pressure.

If the Boyd's you bought didn't work for you, you should have sold them and moved on and not come here to bash Boyd's because of your apparent lack of understanding of how wheels are built.
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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14,409 Posts
Lowering your spoke tensions will not change the ride quality of the wheels. Or to put in another way, if you lower your spoke tensions enough to change the quality of your ride, the bike will be unrideable.

As you stated so yourself, changing to different tires is what will make a noticeable difference.
 

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Banned Sock Puppet
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Banned Sock Puppet
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Yes, it was a dumb idea to reduce spoke tension but the ride was really harsh and I was very disappointed since the wheels were purchased for my long distance bike. I don't have a clue about what contributes to a wheels ride characteristics. Altamont design looks very similar to the HED wheels but HED wheels run very smooth.
You may want to read the excellent article below before you post anymore comments on the topic. It will give you a better understanding. Please read the WHOLE article:

Debunking Wheel Stiffness - Slowtwitch.com
 

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Russian Troll Farmer
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3,416 Posts
As to the bike 'jumping', did you put tire seal into the tube? As long as it remains liquid, it will take a while to spread out and balance the tire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:DoNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> <w:SplitPgBreakAndParaMark/> <w:DontVertAlignCellWithSp/> <w:DontBreakConstrainedForcedTables/> <w:DontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Jay:
I’m sorry that you think this is all BS. I’m not complaining about the wheels. I did my complaining long ago. Some of you are taking this discussion completely wrong. Reality is that I could not care less about Boyd Cycling and their products. I’m not bashing his products. If I wanted to bash his wheels, I would be posting negative comments in all the cycling forums on line and not on this seldom viewed forum that the vast majority of wheel buyers simply do not visit or even know about. I have not done this. I’m sure the majority of Boyd wheel owners are very pleased with their purchase but, even the best of companies occasionally has sends a dud. And Jay , if you still think this is all BS, I suggest that you refrain from reading it.

Cdhbrad:
As to the question of why didn’t I try to sell them. I did try to sell them on Craigslist. I did not get any offers. The fact is that Boyd wheels are not a well known brand and that does not make their used wheels very marketable. I have only met two other riders using Boyd wheels. I did find a local rider interested but he would not go above I think $200. Perhaps you are wealthy and losing $500 on a set of wheels is pocket change but I can’t say the same for myself.
The cracks are real and I would be glad to post photos of them if that would make you happy. I brought up the axle issue because no one here on this forum of wheel experts mentioned this could be a cause for the balance problem and I thought it would benefit someone who has the same problem. I’m sure Boyd Cycling can confirm that replacement parts were sent to me. As for the ride qualities issue, it is real and it should be since the HED wheels are $500 more than the Boyd wheels. The design is similar so I don’t know what HED does differently than Boyd in wheel design. As I have stated before, don’t buy a set of wheels unless you do a trial ride on them. I did not do this so the ride issue is totally my problem.
Lombard:
I have previously read the slow twitch article and I don’t fully understand it and how it relates to ride quality. It seems to dwell on the lateral stiffness of the wheel. There does not seem to be much information on the radial stiffness aspect. All I can say is that I have ridden a considerable amount of miles over the years on quality bikes ((1974) and I can tell the difference in wheels. Some may not believe the difference can be felt but it is there. Anyway, the change in tire and tube helped bring the wheels to a acceptable level.
Toulouse:
The balance problem was present when no tire was installed. It was definitely the slightly bent axle that caused the problem. After the replacement was installed, the wheel no longer caused the jumping. In fact, it was very smooth running.

I’m still waiting for a response to my email to Boyd Cycling as to what to do next and I hope to send the wheel in soon for replacement.
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