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· Banned
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I am assuming this is Dave Clinger. He has been hangin around the Lehigh County Velodrome. What is this guy thinking, or not thinking or what is he on, or not on. Is this for real?? I always thought that all those hot 20 yr old girls with the "tramp stamp" tattoo on their lower back woudl regret it someday when they are 39 and slightly overweight and have 2 kids and attend PTA meetings. But what about this guy. Even "Hi Welcome to McDonalds, can I take your order" will never be in his vocabulary. Oh, well, it is his life.
 

· merckxman
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What cyclingnews.com said in Feb 2005

Tattoo you: Webcor, Clinger and those tatts
What do you do when your team's new star rider turns up at the first training camp looking like an extra from Once were Warriors? In Webcor's case, you ask, politely but firmly, that the tattoos be removed.

Webcor team management was at pains to stress that none of them had a personal problem with Clinger's new look, but it didn't match the image they wanted the team to project. Sponsorship for cycling teams doesn't exactly fall out of the trees and management was also worried that a facially-tattooed rider might deter sponsors.

"The concern is that we are not looking to create a bad boy image," says Scioscia. "David is in full agreement; he even offered to do something about the tattoos before the issue was addressed. We believe Clinger is an asset to the team and we are trying to work with him and towards a resolution."

While a 'wild' image might work in some areas of cycling - it never did downhiller Missy Giove any harm, for example - it's not the way the Webcor team wants to go.

"If you are another company, you may want an edgy image," Scioscia said. "If Webcor wanted an edgier image they would sponsor a skateboard team."

Clinger is now undergoing treatment to remove the tattoos from his face, leaving the markings on his scalp which will be covered by his helmet. "I'm doing laser removal for the next month and I can race after that," he says. "The doctors are doing two to three passes a week. It's really just a slight burn, like a sunburn. I keep cream on it and whatnot. The bottom half [of the tattoo] wasn't finished; I didn't finish it yet because I wasn't sure what the team would think."

It would be easy to beat this up into a team vs rider confrontation, but it seems both sides are actually trying to achieve a reasonable outcome. Certainly Clinger has not been sacked, nor was he sent home from the team camp. Webcor seems to realise that a veteran of the US Postal Service and the Mercury teams with four years' European racing experience under his skinsuit is too valuable to discard because of a couple of perhaps ill-considered spells under the tattooist's needle.

Once the tattoos are off, Clinger will be able to race in Webcor colours. "I've basically got two months on my own to decide what I want to do. The doctor's got to test my skin and then he'll know [when I can race]. If it takes two or three months to complete the surgery, that will be a problem but if we can get it done in one month I'll be okay to race at Redlands, Sea Otter."
 

· Darling of The Lounge
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Dave's Bad Idea

merckxman said:
Clinger is now undergoing treatment to remove the tattoos from his face"
I’m glad David is removing his face tattoo. I was concerned that the only post-cycling job he could get was at a carnival freak show. He would be the guy with 50 pound weights hanging off his nipples and a steel rod through his pecker. On the other hand, he could work at my local Borders bookstore. There are some interesting creatures manning at the counter there.
 

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It's not removed...

Saw him last friday at t-town...and its in full effect. He began the removal process, but at some point actually had the tattoo REDONE. Its darker than ever...

He has track experience from his junior days- he's trying to get a ride, bascially. He looks plenty fit.

The guy is a solid rider. He deserves no pity, however, he knew full well the implications of his actions and was prepared to deal with having it.

FWIW, the guys racing with him all say he's a real decent person- quiet and well spoken- just wants to race.
 

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whats the big deal about a tatoo? a pro cyclist is payed to ride, nothing more. to tell the guy to remove his tatoo is a big MTF racist act, thats all. whats hes gonna do after his life as a pro cyclist doesnt matter to anyone else, just himself.
 

· I heart team Zissou!
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carlos said:
a big MTF racist act,
While not taking any position for or against Webcor's decision, I'd just like to point out in the interest of the preservation of the English language, that Webcor's decision, while discriminatory, was certainly not, nor could it be reasonably construed to have been, a <i> racist</i> act.

<i><b>Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective </b></i>

I personally think it looks kind of cool -- an evaluation that I might revisit if he ever showed up on my doorstep for a date with my daughter....


A+

Philippe
 

· your text here
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not just paid to ride...

carlos said:
whats the big deal about a tatoo? a pro cyclist is payed to ride, nothing more. to tell the guy to remove his tatoo is a big MTF racist act, thats all. whats hes gonna do after his life as a pro cyclist doesnt matter to anyone else, just himself.
in any sport the athletes also represent the company that sponsors/owns the team. its one thing when the athlete does something "off the court," say assault, cocaine posession, etc.; they are (or should) be punsihed by the law. but it's quite another when the activity they participate in carries over to the field of play. so i can see where this might fall under the "actvities unbecoming of a professional" clause. dont get me wrong, i think he should be able to race. hell, half of us wouldn't know what webcor is if he hadn't gone all tahitian, but i can also see what the team management and sponsors are thinking. "does this help the team or create a distraction? does this represent out company and ethics? they say there's no such thing as bad publicity, but..."

and i dont see how telling someone to remove a tat is a racist act.
 

· Cannot bench own weight
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You could call it discriminatory, but not racist.

I can see both sides of the story, and i'll have to leave it at "he made his bed, now he'll have to sleep in it."
 

· Not Banned
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I think what phillipe is getting at is

it is only considered 'ugly' if you choose one race's (in this case White) aesthetic over another (Polynesian). You are culturally constraining 'what is acceptible' using a White Anglo definition, hence Phillipe's connection to race. He wouldn't be frowned upon by the Maori.
Kinda like how American's bash African Nations for genitally mutilating their daughters
(female circumcision) but don't bat an eye at doing the same to our sons
 

· It's in the game!
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uhmm...how?

atpjunkie said:
Kinda like how American's bash African Nations for genitally mutilating their daughters
(female circumcision) but don't bat an eye at doing the same to our sons
complete removal of the clitoris is different than removing a flap of skin for hygiene don't you think? And how did that analogy get into a professional cycling topic?...lol This is sooo gonna get modded I am sure, but I kept it medically worded.
 

· Not Banned
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not all remove the clitoris

some just trim the labia which is as much a nerve filled 'happy zone' as the foreskin.
that 'flap of skin' is nerve laden and the hygiene arguement is nothing more than BS to justify the practice. Ask any guy who had a circumcision as an adult (had sex both ways), usually described as 'went from driving a cadillac to a VW bug'. You can always come up with a 'handy excuse', Africans think it makes girls less promiscuous.
I have friends who are sons of doctors and their dads left theirs intact. IMHO both are equally barbarous.
but here I'll switch analogies.
Food.
we think Asians eating Dogs are bad. Indians (Eastern) think us eating cows is bad. either way bad is defined by culture. His facial tatoo is only bad when defined by western standards, which is why I used other 'western standards' to show mores and aesthetics are culturally defined thus making the connection to phillipes comment about racism.
 

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Have you ever looked at the percentage of death from these ops?

Atp, there is supposed to be an extremely high percentage of death of women who are circumcised, not only is it extremely hard on a woman as they are pressured into it, but are also old enough that if they didn't have the pressure they might decide differently, whereas male circumcision is simply something that is at birth, like being given a name (although you can't change it, I've never met anyone who was unhappy with the way the cookie crumbled for them, so to speak). Also it is even harder to predict the percentage of deaths resulting from such an operation, as it is illegal in many middle eastern countries and although it is socially accepted, it is not mentioned.
Matt
 
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