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Just curious... I have heard that Cannondale gets its carbon from the US, but I've also heard that it's from China or Taiwan. Does anyone know definitively where it's from? Also, does it really matter? Thanks.
 

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RD-Man said:
Just curious... I have heard that Cannondale gets its carbon from the US, but I've also heard that it's from China or Taiwan. Does anyone know definitively where it's from? Also, does it really matter? Thanks.
No, it doesn't matter.
 

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RD-Man said:
Just curious... I have heard that Cannondale gets its carbon from the US, but I've also heard that it's from China or Taiwan. Does anyone know definitively where it's from? Also, does it really matter? Thanks.
The Synapse is made in China. From what I understand there was quite an internal struggle with the decision to do so. The new System 6 however will be made in the Cannondale factory as they spent a lot of time and money to be able to produce the bike themselves.I don't think it really doesn't where the Carbon is made that goes into the bikes. After all they stand behind (lifetime warranty) them and that's what really matters.

Fwiw I had a nice lunch time ride on the new System 6. Sweet bike, very stiff without being too harsh in the compliance department. I have a Six13 and the new bike is certainly different.
 

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I just picked up my new Synapse Carbon 2 last night. Frame and fork are both marked rather inconspicuously but definitely "Made In China"

(As opposed to, say, the very conspicuous "Made in Taiwan" that graces the front headtube of a Giant TCR Comp.)

Doesn't matter where it's made, just matters that it's made well & supported by a solid company with a reputation for standing behind their product. It is not the consumer's responsibility to ensure the financial solvency of domestic manufacturing industry in the absence of competitive quality.
 

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Yes, it does matter! This is Why.

I've written about this before, and I'll state it again.

It totally matters where the frame is made, unless of course you're hate your country.
Cannondale has made EVERY FRAME since the day they opened their doors in the US, until the Synapse. They have a very long established track record of US manufacturing, with some of the best people and welders in the business, and being a home-grown American success story with American workers. Yes this is a global economy, and I have no issue with foreign made goods which I buy all the time, but when a total US company starts to outsource, it can be a slippery slope. First they make the Synapse, then if nobody complains and bikes sell, maybe they transfer the lower end frames to China, and then the slope begins. Its at even a greater risk now that they are owned by an investment company. Suddenly less and less Americans are working in the factory. By buying an American made frame, you are supporting the US ecomony by keeping an American worker in their job. I am very, very happy they made the effort to make the new System6 at their Bedford plant. Perhaps the raw carbon is from a foreign source, but that doesn't lay off the existing workforce at Cannondale. Perhaps it was because people like me sent them emails complaining when the Synapse came out. It really can work when we speak up. They should be proud of that US flag adorning the top tube of their frames.

On the otherhand, Specialized has always had foreign made bikes. They make no pretense about it nor do they have the very pronounced "Made in the USA" label all over their marketing materials like Cannondale. So to me buying a Specialized would be fine. While its not supporting a US worker, its also not kicking one out of a job.

The same situation is happening with Performance Bike clothing. Every clothing item I've ever bought from Performance since 1988 was made in the US. Then suddenly this year a couple items were foreign made and I found out they laid off all the workers at the NC company that made their stuff, and outsourced some of it overseas. The higher priced items I think are still US made - for now. Same situation as Cannondale, and from now on I will call ahead and make sure any clothing I buy is US made and by a US citizen as was the case at the NC plant. Oh, and the two clothing items I recently bought have seams starting to fall apart which I will be sending back. I will gladly pay a bit more for the US made stuff.

There is more to what you buy than just the quality based on where it comes from.
 

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stevecaz said:
On the otherhand, Specialized has always had foreign made bikes. They make no pretense about it nor do they have the very pronounced "Made in the USA" label all over their marketing materials like Cannondale. So to me buying a Specialized would be fine. While its not supporting a US worker, its also not kicking one out of a job.

Fwiw Specialized did source several of it's older S-Works models to companies in the United States. I really wasn't into their road bikes at the time but several of the S-Works MTB's I owned were made in the States. Of course, now even the S Works models are sourced overseas.
 

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As the economy is influenced more and more by globalization, I think s big issue is fair trade. If the US has free and "unfettered" access to sell our goods to China, and they us, it will only strengthen our economy (think about access to sell to 1 billion or so Chinese citizens...). That [fair trade etc] IMO is the key. What would Fukuyama say? Increased transparancy of China's banking etc....

So, I don't think Canondale making a frame in China hurts the US. In the long run, it may help the US economy. I could be wrong, as I'm not an economist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn recently.:wink:
 

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stevecaz said:
I've written about this before, and I'll state it again.

It totally matters where the frame is made, unless of course you're hate your country.
Cannondale has made EVERY FRAME since the day they opened their doors in the US, until the Synapse. They have a very long established track record of US manufacturing, with some of the best people and welders in the business, and being a home-grown American success story with American workers. Yes this is a global economy, and I have no issue with foreign made goods which I buy all the time, but when a total US company starts to outsource, it can be a slippery slope. First they make the Synapse, then if nobody complains and bikes sell, maybe they transfer the lower end frames to China, and then the slope begins. Its at even a greater risk now that they are owned by an investment company. Suddenly less and less Americans are working in the factory. By buying an American made frame, you are supporting the US ecomony by keeping an American worker in their job. I am very, very happy they made the effort to make the new System6 at their Bedford plant. Perhaps the raw carbon is from a foreign source, but that doesn't lay off the existing workforce at Cannondale. Perhaps it was because people like me sent them emails complaining when the Synapse came out. It really can work when we speak up. They should be proud of that US flag adorning the top tube of their frames.
Thanks for the dramatic interlude, dad. It might matter to you, but there is nothing that says it has to matter to anyone else. Don't assume that your values should somehow transfer to someone else. As for the flag...well, it's just a freakin' flag.
 

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Hate to break the news to you, but Cannondale really has one choice only - get on the CF bandwagon or go down the drain for a second (or is it third?) time. The consuming public wants CF frames, the sellers have to have a product in the marketplace. Most sellers do not have the capital available to re-tool to turn themselves into a full line producer of CF frames. It's not cheap - the tooling and R and D alone would crush most companies. The answer is simple - outsource.

Now Canny can continue to use the strength of their brand and retain some of their sales dollars here in the US or they can throw in the towel and get crushed by everyone else flocking to Taiwan's door. If they bend their principles a little bit, they remain in business and employ some Americans. If they stand by the Stars and Stripes and continue to push out fat-tubed aluminum frames when the public is asking for something different, well, they won't make it for long. The choice seems pretty obvious to me. Keep your oddball, glue together frames here and contract the manufacturing of the full CF frames somewhere else.

Don't blame them, blame your fellow cyclists.
 

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Chase15.5 said:
As the economy is influenced more and more by globalization, I think s big issue is fair trade. If the US has free and "unfettered" access to sell our goods to China, and they us, it will only strengthen our economy (think about access to sell to 1 billion or so Chinese citizens...). That [fair trade etc] IMO is the key. What would Fukuyama say? Increased transparancy of China's banking etc....

So, I don't think Canondale making a frame in China hurts the US. In the long run, it may help the US economy. I could be wrong, as I'm not an economist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn recently.:wink:
Free trade is only a good thing if it is a two way street. Years ago we shipped high tech, high end goods to China and they shipped happy meal toys and sneakers to the US. Today they ship EVERYTHING to us, Dells, 50"plasma TVs and $3000 bikes, while we ship them raw materials like rags unprocessed logs, waste cardboard etc. PBS had an interview with the head of our largest port on the west coast, I forget which port it was, but she stated that what I have said is the case. China imports things until they can copy it and or counterfeit it. They are notorious for not prosecuting patent and copy right infringements. This is not a simple case of free trade between two nations, one side is not exactly playing fair and we just keep filling our Wal-Mart’s with Chinese goods and they keep importing American green backs - To the Moon and beyond…or maybe a town near you !?
 

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Spintogrin said:
Free trade is only a good thing if it is a two way street. Years ago we shipped high tech, high end goods to China and they shipped happy meal toys and sneakers to the US. Today they ship EVERYTHING to us, Dells, 50"plasma TVs and $3000 bikes, while we ship them raw materials like rags unprocessed logs, waste cardboard etc. PBS had an interview with the head of our largest port on the west coast, I forget which port it was, but she stated that what I have said is the case. China imports things until they can copy it and or counterfeit it. They are notorious for not prosecuting patent and copy right infringements. This is not a simple case of free trade between two nations, one side is not exactly playing fair and we just keep filling our Wal-Mart’s with Chinese goods and they keep importing American green backs - To the Moon and beyond…or maybe a town near you !?
Ok, everyone. We should all buy frames that don't necessarily work for us or appeal to us iffin those frames are made in the US of By God A. So please, step away from those attractive frames or those frames from the Far East that might fit you better 'cuz well, they ain't 'merican. America is all about fairness--why, don't y'all remember that tariff tailored to benefit Harley Davidson: that was all about fairness to our own interests. So please, be fair and patronize all your short sighted 'merican companies so the 'merican worker can have his own self-interests protected.
 

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I'm not advocating that any one BUY AMERICAN. I'm the oldest and loudest critic of the American auto industry. I'm just trying to point out that there is the world and then there is China, two very different things and those that just look at china as another competitor, in my mind are missing a very very significant point. Outsourcing everything has its consequences, just be aware of them.

Two good reads on globalization are: Friedman - The World Is Flat and T.R. Reid - The United States of Europe. To most people these are classified as Non-fiction to me they are horror stories.
 

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Spintogrin said:
I'm not advocating that any one BUY AMERICAN. I'm the oldest and loudest critic of the American auto industry. I'm just trying to point out that there is the world and then there is China, two very different things and those that just look at china as another competitor, in my mind are missing a very very significant point. Outsourcing everything has its consequences, just be aware of them.

Two good reads on globalization are: Friedman - The World Is Flat and T.R. Reid - The United States of Europe. To most people these are classified as Non-fiction to me they are horror stories.

Read an interesting tidbit the other day. Mainland China has had a positive balance of trade with the west for almost 2000 years. All the way back to the Silk Road. Europe (Rome, Persia, Greece) wanted Chinese silk, porcelin and gold. The west had little or nothing that the Chinese wanted, so the trade imbalance grew. Until China shut itself off from the world.

Then, along came France and Britain and started the cycle again. Only this time, they forced China to import Opium to level the balance of trade. They had a war over it. Then the imperialists left, China again closed itself off and there was no balance problem until Nixon "re-opened" it. And here we are again.

Too bad the west can't conjure up something aside from Boeings and Airbusses that the Chinese want, eh?
 

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The real problem is that now that China has the technology and an educated population, and a space program to go to the moon, I think that before we know it they will be making their own airliners – and ours. I’m not crying that the sky is falling but it sure isn’t ever going to be business as usual again.
 

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Spintogrin said:
Free trade is only a good thing if it is a two way street. Years ago we shipped high tech, high end goods to China and they shipped happy meal toys and sneakers to the US. Today they ship EVERYTHING to us, Dells, 50"plasma TVs and $3000 bikes, while we ship them raw materials like rags unprocessed logs, waste cardboard etc. PBS had an interview with the head of our largest port on the west coast, I forget which port it was, but she stated that what I have said is the case. China imports things until they can copy it and or counterfeit it. They are notorious for not prosecuting patent and copy right infringements. This is not a simple case of free trade between two nations, one side is not exactly playing fair and we just keep filling our Wal-Mart’s with Chinese goods and they keep importing American green backs - To the Moon and beyond…or maybe a town near you !?
I think I said access to their market, transperancy in banking etc. as recommended many international economists like Fukuyama. If you read what international economists like Fukuyama say - they also mention the problems of patent infringement and other intellectual property rights. What I believe they are pointing out is that an isolationist approach will not be effective in fixing those problems. Of course this is just one persons take on what some experts are saying.
 

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Unless you're talking about whether a frame made in China is more liable to fail than a frame made elsewhere, how about taking this debate to PO? That's why it's there.

And just to add my two cents and spark some more debate to push it there.

Companies will do what will make them the most money. Consumers will do what gets them the product they want for the least money. If we want to stem the tide of jobs being outsourced, there are steps are government could take to make it more attractive for businesses to keep their jobs in the US. If the policy makers weren't in bed with the companies doing the outsourcing, that is.
 

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The Synapse was made in China because Cannondale couldn't turn a profit after tooling up their US factories to crank out the carbon fiber like they wanted to.

So they had to outsource it.

Since then they've re-tooled their factories, and, going forward, will start to produce their carbon bikes in-house. Starting with the six13.
 
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