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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I just spent an arm and a leg (in the tender of time, sweat, tears, pain, and dollars -- in that order) putting a subwoofer in my truck. Actually, the truck already had a factory 8" subwoofer but it sounded worse than a butthole, so my attempt was to upgrade to something that sounded "cleaner", and maybe slightly more impressive (or at least better frequency response throughout the low frequencies). Built a very convoluted custom box (with a handheld circular saw, I might add) and put a 10" Pioneer shallow-mount powered by a 200W rms Profile amp. Spent a load of $$$ on all the stuff, not to mention probably 3 solid days of work.

Anyways, the end result sucked. Sounds almost no different than the original.

Totally....not.....worth it.

:mad2:

// I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, other than to hear myself bytch...


Hella ghetto:
 

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What the Hell is going on
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Size doesn't matter?

I put a 6 1/2 inch Radio Shack sub woofer in an el-cheapo Bazooka tube I picked up at the swap meet. It sounded good enough for someone to steal it. Now Radio Shack no longer makes the 6 1/2 sub woofer.
 

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The audio snobs will diss the profile amp, but I've had very very good results with one.

What kind of box, sealed or ported? Why that particular sub? IME, "impressive" and "200w power handling" don't go together too well. A bottom of the line sub will not sound as good as something farther up the ladder. Likewise, shallow mount subs generally have a shorter throw, so make less sound.

My favorite result ever for "grown up" (i.e. loud as hell inside the car but not from a block away) listening was an infinity perfect 10 getting 300w, along with infinity Kappa components in the doors getting 250w (from the Profile) per channel. It sounded killer.
 

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Collin's Dad
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As shawn said, sealed or ported? Built for the appopriate volume? Where's the box? Orientation/direction the sub is firing? Cross over / low pass frequency?

Generally it's tougher to get low freq while in a truck due to the length of the waves, so you want to try and maximize this by firing towards rear of the vehicle, downward or into a corner. I'd build a cheap basic box and mess around w/ location to see what sounds best before going all out on a complicated box. I bet you may need to go ported or bandpass to get the sound you're looking for.
 

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Hey one more question... what are you using to get the signal to the amp? If it's the speaker level inputs, I've NEVER had good luck with that. Use a line output converter instead if you're using a stock deck. I did an install once where I switched from speaker inputs (sounded like arse) to using a cheapy Radio Shack LOC, and the results were night and day.

If you use a LOC, google "David Navone line output" for a great one at a great price.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
JaeP said:
I put a 6 1/2 inch Radio Shack sub woofer in an el-cheapo Bazooka tube I picked up at the swap meet. It sounded good enough for someone to steal it. Now Radio Shack no longer makes the 6 1/2 sub woofer.
I was just thinking that I should have just gotten a 6.5" powered bazooka instead. It would have fit back there, would have been side-firing instead of forward-firing (thus probably would have sounded better), and would have cost a lot less.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
phil. said:
Are you getting any air leaks from your box that you can tell?
It's possible. I didn't do the greatest job of caulking the box, because there are some really tight corners inside that I couldn't get to due to the complicated design of the box. Should have cemented all the pieces together with construction adhesive as I assembled it.

No matter, I'm starting over with a new box since the first one doesnt fit properly and stinks like off-gassing rubbercoat fumes.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The sub is top of the line 10" Pioneer shallow mount (forget the model #) and is supposedly happiest at around 200-300W RMS, so my amp should be okay.

The box is sealed and is the correct volume for the sub. I designed the box to fit in the tiny space behind my rear seat (dimensions are on the order of 30" long x 12" high x 7" deep at the bottom and 4" deep at the top). I had to build a couple "steps" into the front of the box to use as a rack for my factory and aftermarket amps. I somehow managed to build the box too big (didn't measure twice and cut once :mad2: ) so it's slightly too tight to seat all the way into it's intended space. And I sprayed it with spray-on rubber coat so there's no way to easily modify the box. Gonna have to start over from scratch I think, and this time use carpet instead of rubber coat. The off-gassing rubber coat makes me dizzy every time I get in the truck.

The Profile amp is run off the factory amp which is used to power all the speakers in the factory system. I used the line level converter that was included with my Profile amp to wire it.

Unfortunately, I can't have a back-firing woofer because there just aint nuff room back there to have some space between the woofer and the back wall of the cab.

There are definitely wave cancellation issues in my cab, cuz it sounds a helluva lot better with the windows rolled down than with them rolled up, indicating that the waves that are reflected off the window glass are interfering destructively.
 

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Two scoops of inertia.
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when I was more current with car audio there were a number of options that would yield impressive results in enclosures as small as 0.5cuft and didn't require a whole lot of power. Image Dynamics/Arc Audio 8s and 10s come to mind and were forum favorites where I used to follow this stuff. There were less expensive options as well, but I recall those pleasing the broadest audience.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Dr. Placebo said:
when I was more current with car audio there were a number of options that would yield impressive results in enclosures as small as 0.5cuft and didn't require a whole lot of power. Image Dynamics/Arc Audio 8s and 10s come to mind and were forum favorites where I used to follow this stuff. There were less expensive options as well, but I recall those pleasing the broadest audience.

Yeah, someone suggested the ArcAudio 10" to me but at $270 that's a lot of $$$ for just the driver. :eek:

I spent about that much on my current Profile amp and Pioneer sub, and the building materials for the box I built. $300-350 was about my budget on this project.
 

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Two scoops of inertia.
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oops nm. Elemental Designs subs for the period of time I knew came from ID as well so there's an assumed similarity although measures were taken to keep their prices down. I'd be less motivated to push you into new product than to tell you to diagnose what you have. You could very well end up in the same position if you "upgrade", but with less money in your pocket. Take the steps mentioned above, move the box around and change its orientation, maybe flip the polarity, make sure your enclosure is sealed and that everything is wired properly. You may be experiencing some wierd cancellation issue. Short of that maybe you should stick with a simpler enclosure?
 

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Collin's Dad
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Since you are planning on building a new box, you might want to play w/ some ported enclosure programs to see if you could port your current box. I think w/ lower volume boxes you need longer ports, but you'd have some room since the box is 30" wide.

Unfortunately w/ a sealed box, I'm not sure you'll get all that much low end mainly based on the direction of the sub and the cab length in your truck. Could you do a rear consule thing w/ the sub firing downward?
 

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Two scoops of inertia.
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only saw your pic now. Is the sub able to fully excurt back there? Does it sound any better with the seat forward? Also where did you ground the amp?
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Dr. Placebo said:
only saw your pic now. Is the sub able to fully excurt back there? Does it sound any better with the seat forward? Also where did you ground the amp?
Well, this is where the too big to fit thing comes in. See that metal horizontal cross bar along the back wall of the truck? Well I had to design the box to have a "notch" in back (or I guess it would be a very large rabbet along the top edge of the back of the box in carpentry terms -- see pic of similar box design below). So the box is actually about an inch and a half deeper than what you can see in my first photo. Anyways, I couldn't get the box to seat fully back into that space under the metal cross bar, so the whole box is about 1" too far forward. SO I can't even latch the seat back fully closed. So to answer your question, the sub gets full excursion provided the seat back is angled forward a few degrees from the fully locked closed position.

The sub does sound marginally better with the seat back down as shown in the photo. The seat back also wont fold down forward more than is shown in the photo because it tends to pinch the box more and more the more angled forward it is. (Did any of that make any sense?)

I actually grounded the amp to a bolt on the back of the fold down part of the seat back, which I'm sure isn't a good place because there's a hinge involved before it connects to the truck's chassis. There are no other nearby places to ground to the chassis so I think I'm going to have to drill and tap a hole in the floor near the amp.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
shawndoggy said:
Before you give up spend the $25 on the navone LOC.
Is this really much different from the one that was provided with my Profile amp? The one that came with the amp is 4 wire leads (R+/R-, L+/L-) that you splice into your high-level speaker wires --- and it converts to line-level RCA outputs which you connect to the amp with an RCA cable. The amp doesn't have any actual high-level inputs on it, just the line-level RCA input.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
So right now I'm thinking of a way to design a new box that CAN house the sub in a rear-firing configuration. It would have to hold the sub forward of that annoying metal cross bar, because that bar is exactly 10" above the floor and the outside diameter of the sub is slightly larger than that. The sub has a 3" mounting depth, so with 3/4" MDF the minimum outside depth of the box would have to be 4.5", plus another 5/8" or so for the thickness of the sub flange. Hmmmm.

I don't think I could fit anything, now that I think about it cuz the max behind seat clearance at the top of the box is about 4.5".
 

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It's all ball bearings
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
phil. said:
Since you are planning on building a new box, you might want to play w/ some ported enclosure programs to see if you could port your current box. I think w/ lower volume boxes you need longer ports, but you'd have some room since the box is 30" wide.

Unfortunately w/ a sealed box, I'm not sure you'll get all that much low end mainly based on the direction of the sub and the cab length in your truck. Could you do a rear consule thing w/ the sub firing downward?

Port tuning sounds complicated...i'm skeeered to mess with that! :blush2:

I don't really want to do a console thing, cuz I want it all to be hidden and look somewhat "stock" (even tho it turned out looking ghetto as all hell).
 

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Have you thought about using fiberglass? There are a ton of good guides out there on how to do it. Given your space constraints it would allow you to get an "exact fit" on the back of the box.
 
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