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Cat 4/5 Crit Racing

28775 Views 74 Replies 37 Participants Last post by S_Top_Sign, Jul 5, 2010

chopper585

Discussion Starter · Jun 21, 2010

Is it me or are Cat 4/5 Crit races filled with sandbaggers? I seriously cannot comprehend how the lowest level of racing can have fields with solid cat 1 mountain bike racers in them. I know that I am bitter about this, but how many miles a week does one need to put in just to stay on the back of the main peloton during the first two laps of a Crit Race?

I come from a MTB racing background and I attempting to compete in local crit races and have been failing quite well at this. If I were to register at the lowest level of a mountain bike race (cat 3) I would be sandbagging like no other.

I also find it amusing that the majority of cat 4/5 racers are competing on $6000 bikes? Come on, that is insane?

I might just say screw Crit racing and just go back to mountain bike racing, and throw in some TT's where real fitness counts, and you cannot just hid in the middle of a group.

Will someone shed some light on this subject?

1 - 20 of 75 Posts

atown117

· #2 · Jun 21, 2010

I will. I am a Podium level Cat 1 MTB'er who races as a 4/5 on the road. I tried and get exempted from it, but I was told I had to earn it so whatever I will take my dues and race with the 4/5's until I can upgrade outta there. I do admit I love dropping the whole field on climbs though it's quite entertaining. Crit's aren't to bad, but I usually try to do the majority of the work to make it even, and still end up in the top 5.

spade2you

· #3 · Jun 21, 2010

If staying with the peloton is a problem, I suggest evaluating your training plan.

merryprankster

· #4 · Jun 21, 2010

I just did a stage race this weekend that was 1/2, 2/3, and 5.

I've only been riding road for like 4-5 months but I've been able to really get out and ride and usually hang with intermediate guys on group rides but I've been smoked in the 2 races I tried. I know some of these guys have been riding for quite a while.

Anyway, I signed up for the 5 and there were several guys there that normally ride in intermediate categories in local races, but they signed up for the beginner because several "really good, out-of-towners" were in the 1/2, which caused normal 1/2 to sign up 3/4, which in turn caused the 3/4s to sign up 5.

I was able to keep up for the most part the entire race but would get dropped towards the end in the sprint...just not ready for that accelaration I guess. Didn't really bother me too much as I was able to stay up for the most part. Almost half the 5s that registered didnt show up after the first race because the pace was too fast.

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chopper585

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 21, 2010

spade2you said:
If staying with the peloton is a problem, I suggest evaluating your training plan.

See that is the issue, a training plan is needed for what would be equal to a beginner class... how do you explain this to average joe cyclist who is just attempting to get into racing that they need a $6000 road bike and a training plan, that will totally help the sport out. Might as well start doping...

Andrea138

· #6 · Jun 21, 2010

A lot of women's races are open- meaning that all categories race together and are, in most instances, scored against each other. In my very first race, I was up against several very talented/experienced category 1 & 2 riders.

Drink a cup of HTFU and train harder.

Wookiebiker

· #7 · Jun 21, 2010

We have a guy around here who races "Pro" MTB class and does well at that level...and is a CAT 3 on the road. Up until last year he was a CAT 4 and was able to hand it to the field when he wanted to on a climb. The problem was he didn't race enough mass start road races to get the upgrade...which seems to be a problem with lots of top level MTB racers.

To answer your question though...you need to be in shape for 4/5 crits as the top guys in any catagory are alwasy going to be fast. Many of them move up quickly and are out of the 4/5's soon enough, but are replaced by others that are fast and moving up.

If you are not getting a solid 8-10 hours a week on the bike with some good interval work and hard group rides, you will likely struggle, even in the 4/5 field unless you have some natural talent.

BTW...it doesn't get any easier in the TT's

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spade2you

· #8 · Jun 21, 2010

chopper585 said:
See that is the issue, a training plan is needed for what would be equal to a beginner class... how do you explain this to average joe cyclist who is just attempting to get into racing that they need a $6000 road bike and a training plan, that will totally help the sport out. Might as well start doping...

You seem easily intimidated. Perhaps road biking isn't your thing.

JimT

· #9 · Jun 22, 2010

Hey Chopper dont get too down. I guess there is no real "beginner class".
I have just started to seriously ride this year and hopefully I can compete in some crits next year. I have a $6000 bike but I wont use it out there. I will probably used a 07 Madone SL. I know I am going to get beat bad but I am going to try. I honestly dont think at my level of fitness the bike will make much of a difference, for that matter put someone who is a racer on my old bike I dont think it will make too big of a difference as long as it fits well and the drive train works.

Good luck and just keep trying

spade2you

· #10 · Jun 22, 2010

Wookiebiker said:
BTW...it doesn't get any easier in the TT's

...and if $6k bikes offend ya, wait til ya see some guys with full discs, deep dish or tri spoke fronts, aerodynamically enhanced skin suits........man I love TTs.

davidka

· #11 · Jun 22, 2010

Does anyone else think that cat. 5 is meaningless if it's not offered as an exclusive category?

Don't lose hope Chopper, you might be better than you think. When you're not among the strongest guys out there position makes a huge difference. The most important thing is to try to stay near the front. When you're in the back you are spending more energy than the guys up front because you are having to re-accelerate from slow to fast at every corner. Up front you don't need to do that. Try to get out on some group rides to get your pack skills. Once you start getting more comfortable with that you will find it easier and easier to pick your spots.

Kerry Irons

· #12 · Jun 22, 2010

Uh, no

merryprankster said:
which caused normal 1/2 to sign up 3/4, which in turn caused the 3/4s to sign up 5.

So where were the officials? If you are a categorized racer, you can't sign up to ride in a lower category race just because you're afraid of the field in your category. It's a great story, but I don't think it happened.

spade2you

· #13 · Jun 22, 2010

davidka said:
Does anyone else think that cat. 5 is meaningless if it's not offered as an exclusive category?

I suppose if I were starting and that were the only race for a 4 and a 5, I'd be a bit ticked, but I'd hope that it wasn't a routine thing. Out of more than a dozen local races, my area only has 1 race that's 4/5 and I think 3s had an option to be in the 4/5 if they chose since the 1/2/3 was a really long RR.

Wookiebiker

· #14 · Jun 22, 2010

spade2you said:
...and if $6k bikes offend ya, wait til ya see some guys with full discs, deep dish or tri spoke fronts, aerodynamically enhanced skin suits........man I love TTs.

Aside from the bike....You might be talking about me

Team skinsuit (dimpled fabric and all)
Deep dish front wheel
Full disc rear
LG aero helmet
PI shoe covers
Old Fuji Aloha 1.0 bike

One of these days when I get the money, I'll spend it on a nice TT frame, fork and bar set up :thumbsup:

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old_fuji

· #15 · Jun 22, 2010

I entered a cyclocross race last fall as an approximate cat 4...They only had 2 divisions, one was class 1/2 and the other was 3/4. The 1/2 race was for sponsored team riders, and the 3/4 was for everyone else. The real weird thing was that every 1/2 racer I talked to said that the 3/4 race was MUCH more competitive than the 1/2, simply due to the weird class restrictions (sponsored vs. non). Even though the 3/4 class was supposed to be "Run what you brung, everyone welcome," all the good racers thought it was gonna be an easy win, and thus, the whole race became uber-competitive.

FWIW, That's my (very limited) racing experience..."Sandbagging" definitely is prevalent on some levels. Whether or not that's exactly what's happening with the OP, I don't know. The best advice I can give is to talk to other, more seasoned racers and find out everything you possibly can.

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chopper585

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jun 22, 2010

I typically do train with cat 3s and some cat 2's one of which is a current cat 3 state crit champ and tt champ. I also regularly put in 200+ road miles a week plus a few hours pedaling dirt. If this is not enough time for cat 5 racing what is. As far as the tt comment I made above, the reason why I made it is that tt racing is the most honest form of racing out there. You cannot "use" anyone else to gain results.

I guess I'll just use the road bike for training and keep racing on the dirt.

A cup of htfu. That's funny chit.

spade2you

· #17 · Jun 22, 2010

Wookiebiker said:
Aside from the bike....You might be talking about me

Team skinsuit (dimpled fabric and all)

Deep dish front wheel

Full disc rear

LG aero helmet

PI shoe covers

Old Fuji Aloha 1.0 bike

One of these days when I get the money, I'll spend it on a nice TT frame, fork and bar set up :thumbsup:

LOL, as much as I enjoy my TT bike, I wish my main roadie could double as a TT and save the $. Although, there were a few guys at the last TT who stomped me without a lick of aero gear.

One of them was a "natural" who doesn't really follow any sort of training plan.

spade2you

· #18 · Jun 22, 2010

chopper585 said:
I typically do train with cat 3s and some cat 2's one of which is a current cat 3 state crit champ and tt champ. I also regularly put in 200+ road miles a week plus a few hours pedaling dirt. If this is not enough time for cat 5 racing what is. As far as the tt comment I made above, the reason why I made it is that tt racing is the most honest form of racing out there. You cannot "use" anyone else to gain results.

I guess I'll just use the road bike for training and keep racing on the dirt.

A cup of htfu. That's funny chit.

I understand why you enjoy TTs and it's honestly the same reason I enjoy them.

200+ miles a week and you're having trouble with crits? My guess is that you simply need to incorporate better training into your diet. Crits aren't my thing, but I can usually handle them, although I got gapped the second after I was gassed in my first crit of the year. Anyway, you sound like the perfect candidate to pick up a good training program. You're training a lot, but if you're struggling with a crit, you simply need to work on specific efforts that train your body to have all out intervals for 30 minutes.

Contrary to popular belief, Cat 5 ain't easy. Those shorter distances in RRs and duration of crits means all out paces, plus a lot of wasted energy having to react to poor tactics.

seppo17

· #19 · Jun 22, 2010

If there are a fair number of 4's in a 4/5 race that could be pretty rough for a new 5.

Just relax and try a couple more races before you give up.

chopper585

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jun 22, 2010

You are not kidding about poor tactics.

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