Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
A wheelist
Joined
·
11,324 Posts
Cav - the greatest road sprinter cycling has seen
Yes he is. He's #3 on the list of stage winners at the TdF and the two guys who have won more stages (Merckx and Hinault) were not pure sprinters like he is. I think Cav is 2 stages behind Hinault (but many behind Merckx).

I know zero about madison racing. But apparently these guys just won.
I know lots about madison and they executed this one perfectly. They racked up lots of early points and bided their time until they could gain the lap they needed. On equal laps, most points wins. They were in full control the whole race.

Wiggo will now put off retirement until after the London Six this coming winter where he and Cav will get top dollar for appearing as world madison champs. I can't imagine what their appearance fee will be. The place will be a sell-out for all 6 nights.
 

·
Forever a Student
Joined
·
4,963 Posts
Wiggo said:
We knew we had the legs the later we got into the race so we kept biding our time because we knew everyone else was on their knees.
Way to lay down the hammer ol' chap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,701 Posts
Yes he is. He's #3 on the list of stage winners at the TdF and the two guys who have won more stages (Merckx and Hinault) were not pure sprinters like he is. I think Cav is 2 stages behind Hinault (but many behind Merckx).
Not to take anything away from Cavendish, but that's something of an unfair comparison since Cipollini was disinvited so many times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,713 Posts
Not to take anything away from Cavendish, but that's something of an unfair comparison since Cipollini was disinvited so many times.
Not to take anything away anything from Super Mario, whom I love for his style as well as his ability, but the main reason he won fewer Tour stages was not the few times that he was "disinvited," but the fact that he only raced the first week of the Tour and dropped out before the mountains. So there were only 3 or 4 sprint stages available to him. Cavendish finishes the race, and wins stages late. Mario once won 4 stages, but usually one or two. Cav has won 4, 5, and even 6 once.

Mario took the home country race differently, and his record of 42 Giro stage wins will likely hold up for a long time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,701 Posts
Not to take anything away anything from Super Mario, whom I love for his style as well as his ability, but the main reason he won fewer Tour stages was not the few times that he was "disinvited," but the fact that he only raced the first week of the Tour and dropped out before the mountains. So there were only 3 or 4 sprint stages available to him. Cavendish finishes the race, and wins stages late. Mario once won 4 stages, but usually one or two. Cav has won 4, 5, and even 6 once.

Mario took the home country race differently, and his record of 42 Giro stage wins will likely hold up for a long time.
Points well made. So which is higher on the Greatest Sprinter of All Time scale?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,713 Posts
Points well made. So which is higher on the Greatest Sprinter of All Time scale?
That, of course, is one of those "depends how you measure" questions. On sheer palmares comparison, it's hard to argue against Cavendish. The more fun (but unresolvable) question is who would win more often racing head-to-head if both were at their prime. The Joe Louis vs. Muhammad Ali argument, fun to argue about in a bar, but essentially unanswerable.

But probably Cav wins? Maybe? Who knows?

If style points count even a little, Mario runs away with it. ;-) And I don't mean just the looks and crazy kits, I mean style in the sprint. Cavendish lays down awesome power at just the right time, and rides away when it counts. Mario seemed so often not to be crushing it, and would appear to be boxed in, and then he would accelerate like magic though an opening that didn't seem to be there.

I like them both, but I miss watching Mario more.
 

·
Not Banned
Joined
·
49,013 Posts
the Madison is one of the greatest bike races there is. Sheer frigging chaos to everyone but the riders. A couple of our juniors just got back from the Berlin and Copenhagen Six Day events
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,061 Posts
Mario took the home country race differently, and his record of 42 Giro stage wins will likely hold up for a long time.
yes but it was also a very different "piano" Giro back then. I doubt he would make it through the first mountains now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,701 Posts
Cavendish is the most explosive rider I've seen, but my loyalty lies with Cipo and his 57 GT stage wins. That and the skin suits. And the fashion runways. And the, you know, greatness.

That'll be 2 cents, please.
 

·
Not Banned
Joined
·
49,013 Posts
McEwan, won sprints with no lead out. Cav is one of the best. Nobody ever had a lead out like Mario. For those of you new to the sport that big red Saeco Train was a sight to behold
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,744 Posts
I know zero about madison racing. But apparently these guys just won.
That's pretty obvious, since winning the Madison doesn't make you the world's greatest sprinter, just like it doesn't make Bradley Wiggins the world's greatest stage racer / time trialist / climber / etc. But it does help to refute the notion that Cav is a one trick pony.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That's pretty obvious, since winning the Madison doesn't make you the world's greatest sprinter, just like it doesn't make Bradley Wiggins the world's greatest stage racer / time trialist / climber / etc. But it does help to refute the notion that Cav is a one trick pony.
Perhaps you didn't read the article. Nobody suggested the headline was a result of the madison.

This was Cavendish’s third world title in the discipline, almost 11 years after his first as a callow, shaven-headed youth in Los Angeles on the threshold of a career as the greatest road sprinter cycling has seen,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,701 Posts
... that big red Saeco Train was a sight to behold
At your suggestion I looked at a few YouTube videos. What a machine! As jcavilia implied Cipo was very quiet in the saddle, with a seamless transition from seated to standing.

something the videos I looked at failed to show, and which i believe is a key to Cipo's success, is that racers trying to derail the train would sometimes barge into the line. If they barged at Cipollini they would just bounce off. The man could not be moved.

JSR
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,360 Posts
McEwan, won sprints with no lead out. Cav is one of the best. Nobody ever had a lead out like Mario. For those of you new to the sport that big red Saeco Train was a sight to behold
Cavendish won his world road championship with no leadout. He was boxed in and it looked hopeless, then he somehow popped through a hole and won.
 

·
Not Banned
Joined
·
49,013 Posts
Cavendish won his world road championship with no leadout. He was boxed in and it looked hopeless, then he somehow popped through a hole and won.
Yes, there was a season or 2 where Mark raced 'McEwan' Style and still won. He was still successful but that wasn't his career norm like Robbie. I also think if Cav had ever had the leadout of Cippo he'd have been unbeatable. He had it once on the Champs (where Hincpaie took them through the chicane) with high road and the only person close to him was his lead out man
 

·
Not Banned
Joined
·
49,013 Posts
At your suggestion I looked at a few YouTube videos. What a machine! As jcavilia implied Cipo was very quiet in the saddle, with a seamless transition from seated to standing.

something the videos I looked at failed to show, and which i believe is a key to Cipo's success, is that racers trying to derail the train would sometimes barge into the line. If they barged at Cipollini they would just bounce off. The man could not be moved.

JSR
Mario's wasn't a violent burst. He didn't have that massive acceleration, what he had was massive amounts of power. So the train would wind the speed up to a ridiculous level where no one could disrupt it. They took the race over from about 3K out and just drilled it like a pursuit squad. They would deliver Mario to the final sprint where all he needed was that 40mph to 50mph for a couple hundred meters. It was nearly impossible to come around at that speed no matter how fast you were
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top