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I've been looking at the Giant OCR3 Composite, it seems like a pretty good price for a carbon frame. Then I read the "Would you ride this frame" thread and saw the picture of the bike that 'fell against a workbench'.

My bikes stay in the garage with the dogs, lawn mower etc and I can't bear to think a nervous dog could cost me a thousand dollars by tipping my prized bike over. Is CF to fragile for a beginner?

I'm also looking at the Trek Pilot 2.1 spa. Am I correct in assuming an aluminum frame would handle 'falling over' better than CF.
Does anyone have experience with the SPA feature. The short ride I had on one felt pretty good, seemed to ride smoother than the CF Giant. Does the SPA affect performance?
 

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Carbon fiber is very fragile. One crash and it could break in half; one fall over in the garage and it is all over. The problem is steel, aluminium and titanium are also fragile and the same thing could happen to them (there have been tons of threads with alumium frames getting dinged when falling over). Don't forget almost any bike you buy now that is more than $600 has a carbon fork, and you don't hear about those breaking any more than steel or aluminium ever did.
 

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I hit the deck at 45km/h on a bike with a lightweight carbon frame (Look 585), fork, seatpost and bars, and the only things damaged were the shifters and me. The frame, bars and other carbon parts not only withstood the crash, but emerged without a single scratch. Carbon is stronger than most people think.
 

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Any lightweight road bike is relatively easy to damage. Unless something directly smacks a tube, in tip-overs and crashes the bars and wheels usually do a pretty good job of absorbing stuff.

One solid hit from a fixed, hard object can dent / crack the top tube -- weakest point on a roadbike -- of any frame. I personally saw an 853 steel top tube get a serious dent in it from a (very large) wrench falling on it.

I don't hear CF as being any more vulnerable to this than other ultralight materials.
 

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It depends on how the carbon has been reinforced. An impact causing a dent in a steel tube may only cause a scratch on a carbon tube. The force required to fatally damage a carbon tube may also be sufficient to fatally damage in a steel tube. There's no way you can make such a blanket statement such as the above. You can however expect to a great degree that a lightweight build for a specific material, will be more delicate compared to using more of that material.
 

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collectorvelo said:
you can still ride a steel frame with a big dent in it - probably for another 20 years
Not true for 95% of steel bikes built in the last 5-10 years. Ultra-light butted steel tubing is sometime even more fragile then AL or Ti frames. Way too many stupid light steel frames are out there, built trying to make steel frame weights somewhat competitive with carbon, Ti or Al.

Riding any of these with "a big dent" would be a seriously bad move. Maybe one of the 10+ year old straight gauge tank frames you can get away with it, but then the frame's corrosion history becomes a much bigger issue (and the fact you are riding a pig of a bike, with a huge dent in it).

ANY frame with a big dent is pretty much dead- unless you like quality time in the ER.
 

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False

Coolhand said:
Not true for 95% of steel bikes built in the last 5-10 years. Ultra-light butted steel tubing is sometime even more fragile then AL or Ti frames. Way too many stupid light steel frames are out there, built trying to make steel frame weights somewhat competitive with carbon, Ti or Al.

Riding any of these with "a big dent" would be a seriously bad move. Maybe one of the 10+ year old straight gauge tank frames you can get away with it, but then the frame's corrosion history becomes a much bigger issue (and the fact you are riding a pig of a bike, with a huge dent in it).

ANY frame with a big dent is pretty much dead- unless you like quality time in the ER.

This is just FALSE
A nice 531 frame with a dent is not dangerous to ride
and I have yet to see one rust out

High Grade ChromeMoly of any reasonable weight [4 lb frame] -- would be fine and safe with a dent in the frame - I have seen tons of touring bikes riden for thousands of miles after being dented -- IT WOULD NOT BE SAFE TO DO THAT ON CARBON FIBER
 

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Post of carbon frames can really scare you to thing what could happen if the right things fall into line to cause such a catastrophy. But hey these issues of fallen mishaps are pretty rare and probably could be avoided with some foward thinking such as don't park bike where a fall could find the bike being damaged. Keep it away from objects that could inflict damage and you'll be fine. Don't let someones negligence stop you from getting the bike you want. Best thing is to just get a stand for the bike. No worries and no damage from canine mishap.
 

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Based on 3years experience with a TCR Composite frame, you have nothing to worry about.

I have crashed it, more than once. I treat it like it is indestructible and have yet to have any issues. Some carbon frames are made with a wide diameter and they can lay a pretty thin layer of carbon in the mid-point of the tubes but giant maintains a pretty consistent diameter and wall thickness. I would not worry about damage from standard use and abuse.
 

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collectorvelo said:
This is just FALSE
A nice 531 frame with a dent is not dangerous to ride
and I have yet to see one rust out

High Grade ChromeMoly of any reasonable weight [4 lb frame] -- would be fine and safe with a dent in the frame - I have seen tons of touring bikes riden for thousands of miles after being dented -- IT WOULD NOT BE SAFE TO DO THAT ON CARBON FIBER
Hilarious. Where to start even.

531, "high grade cromo" - did someone hit the way back machine button? For your dinosour steel frames I EXPRESSLY addressed that- here let me quote myself:

Maybe one of the 10+ year old straight gauge tank frames you can get away with it, but then the frame's corrosion history becomes a much bigger issue (and the fact you are riding a pig of a bike, with a huge dent in it).
And if you haven't seen a corrosion damaged older steel bike, you certainly have never worked at a shop.

Also, saying any dent is safe without seeing it first is the height of folly. While hurting yourself is one thing, try not to get others hurt following your misguided advice.

Further, barely any new steel bikes are running those older thick straight gauge unbutted tubes- it ain't 1983 anymore. Thin to ultra thin steel frames with very heavy butting have been the rule for quite a while now. Those frames are just as fragile to even more fragile then Ti, Al or carbon frames in the same weigh class. And if ridden year around, corrosion is still an issue- especially if you start putting dings, chips, rain and whatnot.

Sure you can find a 25 pound, 10+ year old touring bike that may be able to take a beating, but (a) almost nobody is riding those anymore, (b) the wrong dent in the wrong place will kill even the heaviest, crapiest POS steel touring frame dead, and (c) steel is not real, nor is it magic- the rules of material science still apply.

But, thanks for playing.
 

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While I was posing my Time Edge

for the photos I posted about a month ago, the bike fell over and hit the edge of a brick planter. It did nothing more than rub a quarter inch long streak of surface finish off the seat stay, and take a sliver of decal off the fork. In other words, this CF frame came out of the incident A-OK.
 

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Mapei Roida said:
for the photos I posted about a month ago, the bike fell over and hit the edge of a brick planter. It did nothing more than rub a quarter inch long streak of surface finish off the seat stay, and take a sliver of decal off the fork. In other words, this CF frame came out of the incident A-OK.
You're damned lucky your frame didn't explode and kill everyone within a 200 yard radius!!! You better count yourself lucky and go out, right now, and git yerself a 531 frame. Do it, man. Do it for the safey of your neighbors.:rolleyes:
 

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My 531 frame spontaneously combusted and burned down the orphange next door. Seems Reynolds shipped a run of tubes with a higher than normal percentage of Magnesium and the builders tried to cover it up with extra thick paint. One of the orphans was holding my bike while I purchased a carne asada torpedo from a street vendor and the little twit banged it against some Grandma's scooter (she was waiting in line for a bowl of tortuga chile.) The paint scraped, the Mg hit the air, the little orphan pushed the now combusting bike out of harm's way into a pile of oily rags (the orphans were servicing the capstains they use to generate electricity for their dorms), the rags burst into flames, setting a pile of tumbleweeds aflame which were then picked up by a dust devil and blown onto the roof of the orphanage, burning it to the ground.

I suppose I should be pissed at that kid, but he is an orphan and so it's hard to take it out on him. I hired a bunch of them to clean stalls for me and exercise the horses, so it looks like everything will work out in the end (the orphans are sleeping in my bike house until Catholic Charities finds them better digs.)

But man oh man, just because it's steel, it doesn't mean it ain't lethal.
 

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wrong again

Coolhand said:
Hilarious. Where to start even.

531, "high grade cromo" - did someone hit the way back machine button? For your dinosour steel frames I EXPRESSLY addressed that- here let me quote myself:



And if you haven't seen a corrosion damaged older steel bike, you certainly have never worked at a shop.

Also, saying any dent is safe without seeing it first is the height of folly. While hurting yourself is one thing, try not to get others hurt following your misguided advice.

Further, barely any new steel bikes are running those older thick straight gauge unbutted tubes- it ain't 1983 anymore. Thin to ultra thin steel frames with very heavy butting have been the rule for quite a while now. Those frames are just as fragile to even more fragile then Ti, Al or carbon frames in the same weigh class. And if ridden year around, corrosion is still an issue- especially if you start putting dings, chips, rain and whatnot.

Sure you can find a 25 pound, 10+ year old touring bike that may be able to take a beating, but (a) almost nobody is riding those anymore, (b) the wrong dent in the wrong place will kill even the heaviest, crapiest POS steel touring frame dead, and (c) steel is not real, nor is it magic- the rules of material science still apply.

But, thanks for playing.
there are lots of steel frames made today with chrm-molt tubing - including 520 tubing
and lots of Touring bikes sold with high grade steel frames

the fact that you only ride or like 'racing' bikes does not mean there are not other Road Bike Riders who use Touring bikes [plus commuting bikes will be growing also - as are track]
most these bikes use high grade chrm-moly and you can dent it and keep going without fear it will have unpredictable frame failure - as you would fear on carbon fiber

think of it this way - if you HAD TO
hit two frames together like swords and then ride one of them hundred miles with the resulting damage in the TT
would you prefer a Trek 5200 or Trek 520?
which would be safe after the event of having a dent kncked in its TT?

simple to answer - just read Trek's warning on carbon fiber - do they include that on the chrm-moly 520?
 

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terry b said:
But man oh man, just because it's steel, it doesn't mean it ain't lethal.
Exactly. Remember Remington Steele? He was a walking, talking lethal weapon. They had thought about calling him Remington Composite, but they felt that Steele just added a more deadly edge.

People forget that when they buy steel bikes and other steel products: the deadly edge.
 

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what more do you need

LBK said:
collectorvelo does it again!!! Subjective comments without any evidence of scientific data to back them up.

manufacturers warn cutomers of sudden frame failure on carbon fiber frames
not on chrm-moly

and do not get me wrong - I am not saying carbon fiber is bad
just that I would never ride one with visable damage
whereas on high grade steel a dent would not scare me
 

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alienator said:
Exactly. Remember Remington Steele? He was a walking, talking lethal weapon. They had thought about calling him Remington Composite, but they felt that Steele just added a more deadly edge.

People forget that when they buy steel bikes and other steel products: the deadly edge.
No kiddin'

When was the last time you nicked yourself with a carbon fiber razor? I about bled out this morning after my carbon-steel Bic went deep after my jugular. I'm going back to something organic, like a sharpened clam shell.

And I won't even mention the time I was riding past the junk yard and those funny boys were playing with the giant electro-magnet. That was a ride to remember.
 
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